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Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by mr moto, Feb 9, 2008.
I am so looking forward to my S10 arrival.
I would not regard myself as the expert to say which is better, but after having a 1200GS for a whole weekend and shortly afterwards having an S10 for a 3 hour test, I immediately signed the S10 papers without ANY FARKING hesitation and have not been sorry for a second, even after again taking a spin with a friends 1200GS two weeks ago. I don't really give a sh!t what the S10 weighs (not going to carry it around), it feels better than my now departed 800GS ( not even mentioning the 1200GS). Must admit, I still prefer the looks of the 1200GS, but I'm not riding the S10 to boost my image - I'll farkle it to my taste and that's it.
The Yanks who ordered their S10's without a test ride won't be disappointed as far as I'm concerned.
As far as I could gather, the ONLY second hand S10's in South Africa, are demo's - S10 owners ALL LOOOOOVE their bikes AND MANY are previous 1200GS owners, so let's cut the crap and trust the owners opinions, not some troll that has an agenda....
I agree with Wasp and Bundu, there wont be any disappointed riders when they get their new 10's. Instead this site is going to explode with positive comments from people who set the bike up (farkle) to their taste and ride in their fashion.
What Im saying is ,this bike is so adaptable and versitile that every riding style is catered for. Offroad ,touring, sportriding anything. And its just so reliable.
Ive never been so happy with any other bike Ive owned.
Fat chance 1bmwfan, Supa12 Pilot already has a wife that rides and a ST..
Supa12 Pilot, your post regarding how much you hate the ST has inspired me to put a deposit on another ST. If one ST is that bad how bad would two be.:huh .
Reading along here has been fun... And enlightening.
Before commenting I think I should mention a few things. One, I currently own a KLR650 and a KLE650 Versys, and in the past I have owned a BMW Oilhead 1150. I have also owned a lot of Honda's, a few Yamaha's, some Suzuki's, some Triumph's, a bunch of European dirt bikes (KTM's, Husky's, CZ's, etc.), an Aprilia, and currently also own a couple of Ducati's and an H-D XR1200...
And along the way at least 95%+ of the bikes I have bought have been without a test ride. Funny thing about that... I've never regretted not having those test rides, either. 10 to 30 minutes and a few miles have never told me enough about a motorcycle for me to really decide if I like it, love it, or hate it. That takes some time, and "living" with it for a while. And a test ride never tells you a thing about what it's going to be like to work on it and maintain it.
I love my KLR, but I damn well expect the my new Super Ten to weigh more than it does. But I also know it's going to have a bunch more power... It literally has to, as the KLR is no powerhouse, and never has been. I'm pretty sure it's going to be a lot more comfortable, too. You only need look at the seating, bodywork, windscreen, ergonomics, etc. to see that. And it doesn't take a genius to figure out the Super Ten will have way better brakes than the wimpy KLR binders (and my KLR has a larger-than-OEM disc, steel-braided brake line, etc.), not to mention shaft-drive, TCS, etc.
I loved my BMW R1150R, too... in a lot of ways. But there were a lot of ways I hated it, too - like the near complete dis-assembly of the motorcycle to get to the battery or air filter... Or the sudden failure of fuel line clamps that sprayed fuel all over a hot engine and exhaust system and permanently fuel-stained the gearbox case... Or the cheesy plastic fuel disconnect clamp I replaced with a better one before it failed like so many others had experienced... Or the consistently noisy cam-chain tensioner met by the BMW service tech's usual "they all do that"... Or the wiring bound too tight by the factory up around the steering head...
I never had one of the dreaded final drive failures, but I saw a couple, and heard about far, far too many more to not be so concerned about it that I became almost fanatical about changing final drive lube, lubing splines, etc.
Is the Yamaha heavier than either a BMW G/S or G/SA?
I have no idea, but I have yet to find even a single motorcycle manufacturer that printed or claimed a dry, or wet, weight that matched the certified and easily calibrated scales we have in our shop... Not *ONE*! And most all (except for a couple of dirt bikes) weighed out heavier than those claims. The new Super Ten probably will, too (my FJR did), but I haven't picked up and actually carried a motorcycle since the stupid days of my teens and twenties...
To me it's how they *feel* when you ride 'em. My FJR felt way lighter than it was. So does the XR1200, and it's a brick.
One thing I do know... Or at least have considerable confidence in... My new Yamaha Super Tenere will be way more reliable and less costly to operate and maintain than my BMW was, and will no doubt be just as much, if not more, fun to ride and own, too.
Of course, YMMV...
Has anyone gone through a set of Mezteler Tourances on their S10 yet? How many miles/kms did you get out the front and rear?
Okay, I will admit it, I had a test ride. But, it was too short.
Mfg's weight claims used to be wildly optimistic, but there has been a push in the last five years to make them more much less "figments of marketing's imagination" and reflect actual "curb" weights with fluids. Both BMW and Yamaha are currently publishing figures that are verified by the magazines to be very close to actual weights. For the models these days that publish curb weights or "ready to ride" weights, I think you can trust the figures to be close, say within 10-lbs or so.
I'm surprised this GS vs. S10 weight controversy continues to be well.... controversial. Both by weighing similar bikes and by working backwards from the spec sheets it has been confirmed that the S10 weighs about 35-40 lbs more than a comparably equipped GS, apples to apples (same fuel, some equipment, some accessories, etc.). The analysis has been done folks.
As to whether this weight difference is significant, it is what it is. The arguments that once a bike gets up above X "it doesn't matter" or that one bike or the other "carries its weight so much better" don't hold much sway with me. The extra weight of the S10 is a negative and I wish it were lighter. OTOH, it's not a huge deal nor something to dissuade most who might be cross-shopping these two bikes. It's just part of the myriad tradeoffs one makes between two competing motorcycles, especially two like this which are so similar in mission.
Speaking as one of those patiently waiting Yanks I'd like to say that I really value hearing from the actual owners of the bike. And except for the unfortunate experiences of Supa12 Pilot, I've seen no owners with regrets anywhere. Gives me a lot of confidence I'm going to be happy.
I don't believe I have ever learned anything pertinent on a short test ride. My FJR was terrific on the test ride, and I sold it 30 days later as too boring for me. My Strom was unimpressive on the test ride and I love that bike above all others today (and there's been many). I'm certainly not going to get concerned over the review of someone that appears to have a bias towards unreliable, or at least high maintenance bikes. I bought a Yamaha for a reason.
That said, thanks to Rick West for offering his opinion. It has been noted.
That's a shame because I used to hold the same view which near stopped me considering an S10, let alone buying one. I am happy to report that I was wrong - my S10 weighs 60+kg heavier than the Wee Strom I had before it, yet it is not top heavy, the engine power more than offsets the extra weight, and it rides dirt tracks and gusty wind conditions so much better. I don't really care what it weighs because it "feels" better. Isn't that what riding is all about?
Sure, that works for you, but "feel" is highly subjective and what feels better to you may not feel better to me. And who is to say that the feel of the bike wouldn't be even better if it were 35-lbs lighter?
Personally, I'll take a 35-lb lighter bike over a bunch of anything-but-objective owners saying that the weight doesn't matter because if "feels" so good. And I've got no dog in this to dis the S10 - I have one on order. I just think it is what it is - a bike that is very very good DESPITE it being a little overweight.
I'd be guessing 18-20k klm,similiar to my Caponord
But,it would be interesting to know if the S-10's
traction control improves tyre life
I admit the S-10 is definately on the short list...
And for another long post.........<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
Dallara you correct and a great writer. <o></o>
Let's not fool ourselves, the S10 is a heavy, heavy bike. I don't care what one thinks, 260+kilos is heavy, no matter how you look at it. That's 572lbs on a good day, and that is not counting all the crap in your panniers, your own weight and your pillion, gas, oil, farkels....... We might as well say the S10 weighs in at 300k, easy.<o></o>
Case in point: The other day I was at a gas station filling up. The pump I chose had the drain right in front of the pump. I placed the side stand down, got off the bike and then I put the bike on the center stand with a little difficulty as the bike was slanted nose down. I filled up and then I, as always, left the side stand down in order to take the bike off the center stand. Because of the slant the bike moved forward and I stopped it from rolling forward but when the bike stopped the side stand was on top of by toes and when the bike went down.... well, you guessed it, crunch. (That fuken hurt!) So I kicked the side stand back up all pissed off (a car was waiting to fill up behind me, I was rushing as a courtesy) I then got back on the bike (with my toes screaming from having 5,000lbs dropped on them, boots did not help with the agony) and I forgot that I stupidly kicked the side stand up! The bike, of course, went down! I tried to pick it up, but my toes did not feel like helping me, and 3 gas station attendants where helping me right away to pick the bike back up. That bike is HEAVY!<o></o>
Old Git Ray is my personal Obi One btw, he picks up the S10 like it's made of paper. (To my embarrassment) <o></o>
Now, I would like to shake the designer's hand and ask him/her how they managed to make a super heavy bike feel like a featherweight when you sit on it, or ride it, or turn it around in tight areas, or anything at all with it. On sand, gravel, tight turns, wide turns, parking it, jumping sidewalks, doesn’t matter, the S10 feels like a YZ450F in agility, just with more power and yes, a little added eight, which is actually comforting.<o></o>
My choice at purchase was a GS or GSA, both of which I do like. I never did ride the S10 before purchase, I remember when you could only order it on the Internet with Yamaha when it first came out and I almost did. <o></o>
I will explain it this way, since it is difficult to explain a bike that blows my mind time and time again. I am a difficult person to please. It is not that I dislike everything, it is that I always want more of everything, or more from everything. I can think of a 1,000 great purchases that made me think I should have bought the tv 4" bigger, the bike 400cc's bigger, I bought an Audi Q7 and am now thinking of getting a Q5 as it is smaller and easier to find parking (it is not always more in a "greater sense with me") and so on and so forth..... The purchase of the S10 has been the only time that I have ever bought a vehicle or other purchase that I am not wishing for "MORE".<o></o>
I have always wanted 365 bikes in my garage, I love all bikes, but now I feel that I would go back to the S10 over and over and forget about the other 300+ bikes parked in the garage. It has everything I could think of, and shows me things I had no idea it had every day I ride it. It is by far the only single purchase I have made that keeps showing me "I wish I would have had this bike years ago. No alteration is necessary"<o></o>
I do not work for Yamaha, I do not sell bikes, I would be super-pissed off right now if I spent all that money and was not happy with the purchase, believe me. (No pun intended)<o></o>
On a parting thought..... last night was funny. We went to Cancun two up to pick up the car which was in the shop. Tracy drives the car back, I ride the bike back but I went to an ATM, then rode on and got gas, she was a good 20 minutes ahead of me. So I ride back (having a blast with the TCS on 2 and on sport) and get home but she's not there. She gets home about 15 minutes later and I ask, "I did not pass you, I was looking for you and thought you were home already" She says "Yes, it was at the 3rd traffic light where you rode over the curb, through the parking lot, jumped the sidewalk, slid between the 5 cars in front, went back over the sidewalk and jumped it, then turned right on red, doubled back around to turn right on red again!"<o></o>
And all this time I tried my best to make her feel like I ride "safe" without her <o></o>
The S10 is a toy and a pleasure to ride, just you wait!<o></o>
Hhhmmmmmmm that was bad, first degree sarcasm on my part, I hope yours is as well <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
Thanks. I'll be very happy with that sort of mileage. 6500 kms now and they still look good.
I think the European reviews will be using different criteria to judge against than say the rest of the world.
If your riding is predominately tarmac and shorter distances and lots of curves, you will have different criteria than say Australia, South Africa or South America frinstance where you are looking at anything from Smooth slab to Gibber desert over hundreds if not thousands of Km.
So I can understand that the Europeans would put more priority on top end power and cornering fun factor. Hell I sometimes wonder why they even bother with "Adventure bikes" at all. I have a feeling if it wasn't for it being trendy at the moment, they wouldn't be bothered. Sports touring I thought would have been more applicable.
But, In Australia, you need a bit more stability dialed in, a bit more strength, because of the crap the roads are going to inflict on the bike and a bit more reliability, because of the distances involved and the inhospitable weather, and that's just getting to work!
I don't how any European ADV bike riders have been stuck in the middle of nowhere 150km from the nearest town in 45degree heat (115 F) because their 3 way electronic fangleblaster just died and all they can do is read a "service required" sign flashing at them while they slowly de-hydrate. A small percentage I would suspect. Get stuck like that once and "reliability" suddenly becomes higher on the priority list.
Both conditions though do benefit from traction control and ABS. They might just help save you from the same fate with a broken body as well.
I have found over the years that the "character" that you found fun in the first month becomes the pain in the arse you want to get fixed after 3 months. That is the hard part even with BMW's famous long test rides. 2 hours is not enough, hence more interested in how owners go over a few months.
So different places, different ages, different priorities, different tastes. Good to see different compromises being made to suit different needs and priorities.
I don't think the majority of the US and Canadians waiting will be the least bit disappointed. Some may be though. And that is the same it has always been.
I thought it was first class sarcasm on your part. I rather enjoyed it.
I've been bugging Rick at XplorerMoto about Jesse bags practically from the day I ordered my S10. At first they were non-committal but now they are IN! In fact from the email it seems like Rick has ordered an S10 for himself...
VERY skinny I have to say - from this angle at least, the narrowest I've seen.
They were only on loan to get a few pics Frank.
As has been mentioned in the thread at the time, I am not sure how they would go in heavy rain.. They do come with waterproof bags but I imagine that you would get a bit of water through the zip area all the time.
The bags fit onto the SW-M side racks with a Aero specific adaptor..
They are neat enough appearance but just not my cup of tea.
None of the bags or boxes are intrusive to pillions as they are not close enough to legs to even come into play.