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Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by mr moto, Feb 9, 2008.
Hey, don't be so harsh on them boy's, just think how you would feel, spending moro or less 20K Euro's enough to buy two familycars, to find out it's as reliable as a Ducati from the 70's
They thought they had a sure investment, okay it was an urriliable bike but for one aspect, it'smonyholding capacity...
And now that's gone with the whisk of a Japanes Hand from the sky.
You woukld rant and rave too, if you had invested in such a riskmanagement driven asset ;-)
No, that's a fairytale, the first Big Traily was,is and will stay the XT500, although it looks like a moped now, with it's mere 500cc but in 1976 it was a giant trailbike, the biggest thumper for decades, dominating a world of screeming 250 Strokers...
BMW jsut needed a lot more CC to compete with the XT, but if you think of it, its kinda silly, and whem Yamaha Came out with a "mere" 750, BMW cowardly pulled out of the Dakar, being beaten outright by a smaller capacity bike.
Same story reapeat's now again, Yamaha came out with a *much* smaller bike, a "laughable" 450 in a race dominated by 700 and even 900 cc Beemers and Katooms, and look where we stand now...
Okay it hasn't won the entire race, but look at what fretigne c.s. has done, and look at the reliability of the little Wasp...
Yup, that's really cruel to the Investment Bikers, they invest their deer money into chinese sweatshops on the mongolian border, one of the better kept secrets of the BMW money making enterprise.
Don't cry to loudly, yesterday i met a friendly Yamaha Boss from Nippon, and he assured me, the S10 will get in selected shops in May to get your testride, and not soon after the bike. :eek1
I guess I don't see things in black and white only. I like Yamaha's and Ducati's entry to this market. Now we will have a choice of a parallel twin added to the previous options of a boxer, and several V-twins to pick from for bikes at this size and purpose. And they cover a range from mostly street to mostly dirt, the gradient gets more sub-tones, the more options the merrier.
Hopefully this will help raise the bar for all, whatever that bar may be (better prices, better performance, more technology). And hopefully all will survive these tough times.
On the mid-range, twin cylinder, market, BMW still reigns supreme with the 800GS. But if rumors are correct and become reality, Honda should enter that market as well. That would be great! We need more options there.
Finally, a breath of fresh air of reason.
I'm so tired of the Crusaders.
It kills me how hard people have to work to discredit a bike. I gave my opinion about this bike and get flamed about owning a BMW, and how horrible they are, usually by people who have never owned one! Classic!
Yeah, it's always the same story, discredit the people who say things you don't stan to hearing...
But alas, you drop flat on the tarmac, we owned 6 BMW's and i currently still ride on the oldest one of the bunch, so what were you insinuating about criticasters not having experience with beeners?
My R3B started its life as the first kalahari yellow (sottebelgeel) BMW in the neherlands, and has now round and about 650.000 km under it's wheels. and that's just one of our bikes, if the F650 would have been a dependable bike, we wouldnt have diverted to the Tenere...
Just think about it, one of the oldest known BMW protagonist on the web Sylvia Stuurman nolonger rides a BMW...
She even converted the XT dokter who rode XT500 for 25year to convert to the BMW church, and he'snow on teh brink of reverting to his old times Yamaha bonding
Yah-but, what type of tires would you run?????
I'm sure I wouldn't have to worry about tires for a long time due to the superiority of the Yamaha traction control system
So you are a little slow to learn?
I went to Syvia's website. Really nice stories about motorcycles. I read it all. Although she criticizes BMWs, she also talks fondly of them. And I did not feel she no longer has BMWs because of any BMW problems. She mentions that it was because the r1100gs was too tall and heavy for her, since after the accident with the r1200gs. For those same reasons, I doubt she would be inclined to ride the new Super Tenere. Unless she recovers more, and let's hope that is the case. That r1100gs that she sold, BTW, had almost 300,000 kms, and she claimed it had only two problems.
And BTW, Ernst, you kept mentioning BMWs are bad because they also break into two parts. I read the story of the accident. Quite an accident, uh? No wonder it broke into two. That Audi probably needed to be towed after that accident.
So, all in all, the reality is that all bikes have problems, have issues, and are different. Actually, Sylvia mentions how different they are from each other - she was comparing three different r1100gs's and thought they were all very different from each other. Therefore, considering all bikes have issues, a person can make a case either way about the bikes, he/she just needs a bit of a biased intention and a choice of words and things are made to look one way or another.
That is what I don't understand, why someone feels the need to bash a motorcycle. If they don't like it, why can't they get what they want instead? Or if they want to provide an opinion, that they be honest enough to provide it in the right context, so others can understand it appropriately.
Having said all that, Ernst, once again, great stories in Sylvia's website. You guys are real riders!
And to get back on topic, I would love to test ride the new Super Tenere. And the MS1200. And the Moto Guzzi Stelvio. And that Dutch made Diesel bike. They all look like they are great bikes, and they all represent a possible new bike order. Like Audi once used to say on its commercials (or was it some other company?), "you lead or you get out of the way". On the big adventure bikes market, BMW is still the leader, I believe (or is it KTM now?). Let's see what they will be able to do when facing some real competition.
Well said, and if you love your bike then those "issues" just become "character". If you don't love your bike, then they become thorns in your side.
Sadly to say it really is, i'm fond too of my Beemer (being the first Beemer of Syl) with teh Pinkpanther Aniversary, she decided the enjoyment didn't didn't weigh out the troubles anymore,and we bought the bimota... But then there was the Roadrunner (totalled bik at shop for verry kittle money..) and so she rode Beemer again, because the telelever and grunt from an R11GS *is* heavenly. Stil i ride such a beast you know ;-)
But the Roadrunner getting old, and Melkmuiltje being sold, their needed to cme in a new young and depandable model, and there was the 1200, which died on us the very first trip ! And sadly to say it was no Fluke, but the Fluke (brandname...) was taken out of its box too many a time...
I'm not bashing, i would liked it much more if the 1200 was the dreamed overhaul of the 1100, but in effect it was retrograde, and although our Dealer, and the Bigger Subsidary in Maastricht run out of their shoos to get us happy again, it just was we call a Monday Morning Bike...
And yes it was high and heavy, which was verry cumbersome, that sure played a part, but now she rides an XTZ660, which is even higer seatheight than a Katoom adventure (although just 1,5 cm...)
No, the sold bike had only 65K on it, and had allready a transplanted gearbox, exhaust and rearshock, as the rearshock went again, teh bucket was full, and the PP stood in the showroom again.
The 300K bike stands in teh shed to give the R3B a much needen tranny transplant, but 500K on 1 gearbox is exceptionally good compared with the other which added together 4 repairs on three bikes, this 1 exception came under her 1100 at 80K, so even (now mine)that bike had a major issue.
Okay, that was not totally fair, but it was a first fr me, that in an accident, there was somuch damage at such low speeds, and a unicum the fork and front wheel were held inplace by a bumper on a car, so broke loose from the bike without much force, otherwise the bike would have tore it loose i presume (seen "some" accidents in my 30 years...)
Shure, but we are verry fond of the GSses !
ides like no other bike, even on TKC's the concept give bags of confidence so one can even play catch an release on a closed circuit with ZXRS12etc.. on knobbes.
The *Bike* isn't at fault, no way, its brilliant when it rides... *when* it rides, and there is the catch 22, you really cant live without it, but it's impossible to live with it (not in the least financially, warrenty at BMWcorporate sucks bigtime)
If BMW would get to grips with their (lack of) qualitu management we would be both beemerman and beemergirl still, but the worn out cilinders in the two testmachines with F800 engine (das Motorrad) repeated tranny mishaps, closed that door definitely. Their choise of profit maximisation and following chinese partsautojumble stocksupply, is not something we are longer willing to subsidise... Even breaking valves were *not under warrenty* completely ununderstandable, bke beying equipped whith revlimiteret al standard.
I hope i have eluded the context some more to you, i'm not Beemer bashing, the beemers are way okay, just their parents suck bigtime
I will pass on your compliments.
And BTW Syl is (some hardto neglect cumbersome niglles apart) mended again, and we do travel again, allthough the day stints formerly being 700 to a 900 a day are reduced igtime to 3 a 400, but hey we get older too ...
I sincerely hope so, I had my hopes set on the Moto Morini to follow up my old trusty Beemer, but that was really a disapointment, the bashplate was ficked with som sort of wireloops you fix big documents with, and the saddle cut awkwardly in one's calves when standing.
When you look at the Yammy they really seem to have thought about riding standing up with the cleverly thought out residing rubbers in the pegs, nice wide pwgs too, so your feet won't falter round them...
But i'm still waiting on the telephone to get my testride (hey you people at Schiphol, do you hear me or am i nagging to much ;-)
Conclusion: Stop bashing bikes, just tell what is good and what is bad, so people can make a wise choise instead of an educated bet...
P.s. though sometimes it is really tempting to bash a bike a bit, especcially if it looks like a motorcycle mandril...
Over the years have had several R100GSPD's and have a F650GS at present......great bikes all. Sure they have all had there issues...what mechanical doesn't. Goes with out say Yamaha makes great motorcycles also. I do have to say that this Yamaha is the first big Japanese duelly to intrigue me in quite a while. I hope it makes it to the States. As for the interbrand arguing I can only say I've really never met a motorcycle I didn't like.
Me too. Well, except for the...
Just picked up today's paper and it has a small piece on the Super T, says Charlie and Ewan will be using it on their next trek but gives no other details so could be complete BS. I've not heard of plans for their next ride together and can't see any reason why they would abandon the Beemers.
Rumour has it the West to East straight through the middle of Australia is the next one, with a TBA celebrity (Moneys on Russel Crow ).
If that's the case, a 600lb pig would be the last thing I'd want. But then they're used to that.