Things Dealers tell Customers

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by ak_diane, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave Backyard Adventurer

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    Waling through service yesterday I overheard a woman complaining that she'd probably not ever buy a __y__ again (the brand we sell) because new cars just shouldn't need an oil change so often / early. She said that her girlfriend bought a __x__, and that she didn't need to change the oil for many months afterward.

    I was going to interject upon her initial claim that ___y___ cars weren't good, and that she'd buy something else until I heard that come out of her mouth, and her follow-up reasoning for one other thing. The poor service advisers were dealing with a grown woman who didn't understand simple math, and that she drove more miles than her girlfriend did over the course what I guess to be the same amount of time.

    She didn't understand mileage, only time.

    I felt it much better to not try to save this customer, instead letting __x___, __a__ or __b__ gain this level of intelligence (as they often do) as a customer.

    I'm sorry, but I'm used to a much higher educated customer than that. I'll work with the ones who have an IQ over 90.

    Likewise, I've just started to learn that certain attitudes just weren't worth trying to make a deal with. Sometimes walking back to the desk a customer is sitting at, but not sitting down, and saying "Thank you for giving us a chance, we hope you are able to find what you're looking for, but if you don't - we're still here for ya" as a form of "Goodbye" is in the best interest of the dealership on multiple levels.
  2. Handy

    Handy Sunburnt

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    Did you tell her that the manufacturer recommended oil change interval is likely 2 x or more what your dealership recommends?
    It seems a little disingenuous to deride someone's lack of intelligence when that same ignorance is what brings the customer in twice as often as needed for an oil change.
  3. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave Backyard Adventurer

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    We're typically doing oil changes at 7,000 or 7,500 miles. Don't forget that modern cars have oil life guages in them that monitor the use of the vehicle and estimate when it needs changed. We have some customers who get up near 10,000 before the guage reads that the oil life is at 5% life or so.

    I actually had a customer of mine drive 15 miles to the dealership to get the oil changed because her ex-boyfriend told her (actually, insisted) it was time (car only had just under 5,000 miles on it since the last oil change). The service department checked the oil and her meter, and suggested that since she was at 40% oil life left - to bring it back when it hits 15%.

    Thanks, Handy, but get with the times. Modern cars and modern oils seemed to be synced with what most of us would consider to be reasonable oil change intervals for fully synthetic oils, and the dealerships are going by that.

    If you drive 7,500 miles and start deriding the car for getting close to needing an oil change... you have issues.
  4. SteelJM1

    SteelJM1 Undercover KTM rider

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    Full synthetic, good filter (not fram), 15k between changes, 184k miles and still running strong.
  5. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave Backyard Adventurer

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    Yeah, a lot of our customers are able to get 10k miles in before the oil meter reads 0 %.

    Sometimes 10k and 15k is pushing it for some areas and certain professions, but they have to set the algorithym points somewhere. I'd imagine that if someone was using a vehicle in a high silica environment that they'd know it and change oil and filters more often.
  6. Handy

    Handy Sunburnt

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    I have never had my oil changed anywhere that they don't recommend 3000 miles or three months as the oil change interval, including dealerships.
    That was kind of my point, that they recommend you change your oil at least twice as often as is necessary.
  7. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave Backyard Adventurer

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    Ever considered you were buying the wrong brands of car, or all they all really equal in your viewpoint?

    They never were in mine, even before I was working in the industry (residual values at the 3 and 5 year marks show which were made better to a degree - which ones hold on to their value?), and I now have tiers (in my mind) that each brand falls within based on engineering and reliability.

    At one end of the spectrum we have the dodge guys that, despite being on their third transmission, still believe their trucks are superior to Ford and Chevies. At the other end of the spectrum are cars or trucks that run for 300,000 or 500,000 miles without needing a motor or tranny. Sure, not all models from each make are equal, but then we all know that as well.

    For a while there I worked at a major military contracting firm, and it as interesting to see the vehicles the hoards of engineers would and wouldn't buy. There was a period where many of the engineers bought Mercedes and BMW's, but since the engineers I worked with tended to be long-term owners they all learned to not buy either of those makes again, lol. I was there at the end of that period where just a few still had the 6 or 7 year old Mercs or Beemers, and all had plans to get rid of them very soon. If they could, many would run a car or truck for 200,000 miles just to sort of prove to themselves that they made a sound financial and mechanical choice (and to not spend money on payments)... they just found it was too expensive to try that with Mercs and Beemers.
  8. Rick G

    Rick G Ranger Rick

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    I mostly agree with this. My Subaru dealership is still trying to convince me that I need to change the oil every 3,500 miles. I reply by telling them that I am already over doing it by changing it every 5-6,000 miles and to be happy that I even bring it there for them to do.

    The Ford dealership where we bought our Edge reccomends 5,000 miles which I do as I bought a service policy that states I can do so every 5,000 miles.

    Our old Honda dealership never said anything as our Pilot had one of the oil meters which our Subie and Edge do not.

    Rick G
  9. davidji

    davidji bike curious

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    Are you sure it doesn't just measure TBN? That's what inexpensive oil analyzers I've heard of do. It's a simple check to make and useful, but it doesn't tell you about viscosity breakdown, fuel dilution, etc. It's a good thing to know but it's not the end all determination of whether the oil has more life in it. I'd be curious to see a few used oil analyses from when those cars determine their oil needs to be changed. Get some idea how well it works in the real world.

    I've done used oil analysis at well under the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval and found the oil was done. Never had a car that checked the oil itself though. Maybe that works better.
  10. davidji

    davidji bike curious

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    You may be over doing it, and you may not. Used oil analysis will tell you. I think going over 5k miles without some kind of check is risky--this is based on used oil analysis I've had done and reports I've read from others. The car's built-in check qualifies as "some kind of check", though I don't know how good. I guess if I had one like that I'd look into it further.
  11. duck

    duck Banned

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    Anybody know what kind of oil Hitler used in his GS and how often he changed it??

    (As long as we're turning this into an oil thread I might as well throw in some Nazi shit too.:lol3)
  12. ttpete

    ttpete Rectum Non Bustibus

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    Fuck, here we go again.

    My Transit calls for 7500 mi or 6 mos, oil and filter, and that's what it's getting. I change twice a year, and it's done at the local dealer 1/2 mile away. These snake oil threads get awful tedious after awhile.
  13. PT Rider

    PT Rider Been here awhile

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    No, most calculate the oil's remaining life by tracking the temperatures of the air and coolant, throttle position, car speed, etc. cool short trips will call for an early oil change as will hot heavy driving. Easy highway miles calls for a long interval. Viscosity breakdown stays pretty much constant among top brands, so it can be calculated. Fuel dilution is rare, and other concerns are usually addressed by the algorithms in the oil life monitor. GM originally planned their OLM to show 0% life when half the ZDDP was depleted. Keep in mind that the car makers have their money on the line for the length of the power train warranty including 100,000 miles with the extra cost extended protection plans.
  14. *Gmoney*

    *Gmoney* don't look here

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    When I was working for one dealer, I got Carbon Monoxide poisoning.
    Doc said I needed a few days off to clean out my body.
    Went back, told them that, they respond, we don't accept that doctor excuse, go back get a different one.

    I did, the doc got pissed, said I could not return to work until dealer passes a OHSA inspection. First time in over 40 years dealer was not open as they
    aired the place out for 3 days.

    Took another 2 weeks for them to install new air ducts in my area before I was able to return, as they told OHSA that my ducts had malfunctioned.

    I will never forget the looks on their face, and the ass chewing my boss got for that, they also ended up replacing the whole air exchange system in a 1.5 acre building.
    :lol3
  15. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave Backyard Adventurer

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    Wow!
  16. 1911fan

    1911fan Master of the Obvious

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    We've got a problem in our area with grocery store gas. Car will start hard, surge, idle weird, at worst stall, but no MIL and no codes. One of our standard questions for this is, "Where do you buy your gas?" due to how often this crap causes these problems. (BTW, I know that the plural of anecdote is not data- but none of us at work buy that brand, ever.)
    So my coworker was recommending to a woman that perhaps she try a refinery-branded fuel- Shell, Chevron, Exxon, etc as we've had better luck with them. She wanted to know where she could find them. "At a gas station." replied my coworker. Her: "I know, but where?" He listed several, and she continued to be baffled. He finally drew her a map showing several of the gas stations around town. "And you can buy gas at these?", she wanted to know.
    Holy crap- Lived here all her life and had no idea there were gas stations in town, despite driving by many of them daily; or that they actually sold gas. And this is not a big town- 50,000 or so people.
    Since the grocery store she'd been buying shitty fuel from only started selling gas ~12 years ago, how did she get around before? She insisted we check her car out, so we did, spent an hour checking codes, active tests, and such. She paid us an hour to tell her to buy better gas, after we told her to try different gas at writeup.

    It amazes me that such people make it through life without adult supervision.


    1911fan
  17. ttpete

    ttpete Rectum Non Bustibus

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    They probably also had to deal with workmans comp for the doctor visits, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were fined by OSHA. I worked in a shop like that once, and I'd have a splitting headache every evening.
  18. ragtoplvr

    ragtoplvr Long timer

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    Thing is, none of my dodges ever needed a transmission, most I ran to over 250K. That was 3 of them. one a car with the infamous 604.

    BUT I always put in a drain plug and drained out the pan, and replaced those 4 quarts every other oil change. New filter at 15K, then only every 100K.

    Total cost was MUCH less than a transmission, and I follow this on my current Buick also. In fact, I have never had to rebuild any auto tranny that was not raced, since I started driving in 1970, including tow vehicles.

    Rod
  19. Scratch33

    Scratch33 Fugawi?

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    Back in 2009 I traded my 2001 GL1800 in for a new '09. I had a rough idea of what the old bike was worth considering the fact the bike had been crashed once requiring some parts (mostly cosmetic) to be replaced. The dealer I worked with was aware of the crash since they did the insurance estimate on it.

    So when I sat down with the sales manager, he did the predictable "Ohhhh we'd love to give you top dollar for your trade in but times are hard and the bike needs some work and oh by the way it's been wrecked before and that hurts the resale and of course we'd have to be totally honest with the next purchaser about that." Still, we worked out an amicable figure for my old bike and some other things tossed in.

    A week later, I'm at a sporting goods store when one of the store managers noted my motorcycle related T-shirt and struck up a conversation. I asked the predictable question "What do you ride?" - he answered that right now he's on a Sportster that his wife isn't comfortable on, but he's all excited because he's just put a deposit down on a Gold Wing.

    "Congratulations" I respond - "what dealer?" He states the dealer's name and it's the same one I'm dealing with.
    "You buying new or used?" I ask. He says it's a used one.
    "What year?" I ask. He says 2001. A little bell starts ringing in my head.
    "What color?" I ask. He says Illusion Red. Dingdingding. I know there's only one bike like that at that dealer.

    I advise him it's my old bike, we do the 'Hail Fellow Well Met' thing, and I eventually get around to asking him whatall they'd told him about the bike. He thinks for a moment and rattles off a list of stuff.

    "Did they tell you the bike had been wrecked?" I ask. He goes :eek1, then says WTF?

    We spent another 15 minutes or so talking. Later I emailed him an extensive list of everything I knew about the bike, what'd been done to it, what it needed.

    He had a fun time renegotiating the purchase - I even invited him to call me from the dealership if they tried to deny it'd been down before.
  20. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave Backyard Adventurer

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    Been there, man. I'm not in a service department, but I've had this conversation with people since cars putting out impressive performance numbers for their respective engine sizes means good gas and oil has to be used, yet some are baffled at why they can't just go buy gasoline from a 55-gallon drum in central Mexico (or something).

    Really, though, the dealership terminology doesn't help the customers figure it out any better. I've heard the term "Tier 1" gasoline or gas stations/companies thrown around to customers, but obviously that's like the discussion in an oil-thread (for many here) to them. But then so would be the discussion of 'healthy' foods vs. McDonalds to many an American... I guess it all depends on the amount of knowledge they bring with them.

    Now back in 2003 or 2004 we had over a million south Florida vehicles (according to the news - probably more like 2 million) affected by too much Sulfur in what is otherwise generally considered a Tier One gas refinery / company. Shell Oil did eventually pay for one of my fuel pumps to be replaced, but due to lack of receipts and time I just didn't pursue the other vehicle's repair costs, towing costs, and ways it screwed my life up.

    Two top-tier or Tier 1 fuels I don't use anymore unless I really need to are Shell and BP (and any commuting motorcyclist in Florida will eventually see why I don't like BP if they pay close attention to the residues left behind - car owners aren't as in touch with their fuel on a daily basis).