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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by ak_diane, Aug 16, 2012.
Try straight 50W - It's like molasses compared to the oils specified for many modern cars.
It doesn't matter if you commute. Your 5 - 10 miles trips are considered short trips. That's exactly what is considered short trips.
You said, "Pure lies and bullshit. Subaru doesn't say that city driving is severe duty, only frequent towing, lots of dirt roads and lots of short trips are severe duty."
Subaru says short trips (which includes 5 - 10 mile trips) and living in coastal areas are considered severe. So, your service writer was correct, your driving is considered severe duty.
Your service writer is also correct, your oil usage is considered normal (at least until the engine is broken in), therefor it's within spec. The writer may not have answered your question the way you wanted, but they were obviously not pure lies or bullshit. I worked in claims for a large automotive company and whether you believe it or not, based on what you stated (location and driving style), the service writer was correct.
Just because Subaru recommends 7500 mile oil change intervals doesn't make it a good idea. I did a couple of used oil analyses on my Subaru and oil in that motor did not last 7500 miles. I actually had hoped I could go longer with group V oil. Even expensive oil wouldn't get me to the manufacturer's 7500 mile interval, let alone beyond it.
Anyway if you don't have an engine that monitors oil condition and haven't had your own oil analyzed, 7500 miles is a long time to leave oil in there. No matter what it says in your owners manual.
FWIW that goes double if you're talking about a shared sump bike instead of a car. If you browse use oil analyses on bobistheoilguy you will see some good ones at 7500 miles or so from cars and non-shared-sump-bikes. Don't know if I've ever seen a good one of that duration on a shared sump bike. The oil has usually sheared out of grade in maybe 2000-4000 miles. If that.
Just to back up acesandeights, severe duty is typically lasting heavy engine loads or trips in which the full emissions readiness cycle cannot be completed. At low load, the engine takes five to ten minutes to come to operating temp, and then the emissions readiness test begins. This can take anywhere from two to fifteen minutes, depending on the driving cycle - it requires certain steps of over 3K rpm, under 3K rpms but above idle, and also at idle. A ten mile trip is right on the border of severe and not severe, but in moderate traffic, it would likely not make readiness and therefore be severe. In light traffic, you might make it.
I got into this stuff when troubleshooting a bad ECU ground on one of my VWs, and then dealing with a major EGR fault on another.
I don't want to get into the consumtion thing, the spec is accurate, but the reasons for it are not the right ones.
A note on service intervals when you upgrade the oil to synthetic or dragon's blood or Lucas or LE or whatever.... Per Chrysler, the service interval does not change, for warranty purposes. You can run $90/litre pure certified virgin angel urine, or whatever, but you still have to change it at specified intervals. Not sure how many manufacturers are this way, but I bet most/all.
Not a huge believer in synthetics. When I was a sponsored moto racer, and could grab anything I wanted for any of the bikes, I ran dino in everything and changed it after every race. Guys running synthetic did the same thing, albeit more expensively, and we all blew up motors off and on. Racing is a harsh crucible- and IMHO, synthetic didn't make the grade.
Gotta agree with the service writer above, poster's Subaru is subjected to severe driving conditions. Poorly explained, though.
My .02, been writing service for around 26 years for a variety of manufacturers, have been Master Certified for several. BFD.
haha service advisors don't know the answers to those kinds of questions; most of them barely know how engines work.
1 qt. in 6500 miles is nothing, just relax & drive. Maybe it'll stop, maybe it won't. Every engine is different depending on how the tolerances stacked up on the day it was assembled. Add oil as necessary, don't worry, and live your life.
Some service writers are ASE certified service writers (consultants), and some are ASE certified in many other things (there are more than 40 ASE certification tests). Some have turned wrenches for years before becoming service writers. I've held several A-series, B-series and C-series certifications, and I don't think I'm unique in that regard.
I don't doubt you, I just haven't run into any of them, sadly.
Your bike is fixed. Yeah, by fixed they really mean "We probably did something stupid like stripped the screws on your carb float doors, and used some kind of grease to seal your air filter in between the air intakes and in a couple of months all that shit is going to gunk up your carbs and you will bring it back to us because you won't be able to get into your carbs now and your bike will flood and stall and..when your floats get stuck in all that shit we put in there for you"
F- you. I am never bringing my bike there again. I am down to myself and one dealer that I trust to actually do things right. Every screw on the carbs was overtorqued, two were stripped and one of the carrier screws was stripped as well. Finally managed to get the screws out and thankfully the threads were fine. Replaced with hex head screws and cleaned and rejetted the bike, it runs better than when they "fixed" it.
This isn't about the service writer being correct. It's about shitty customer service. I asked if my oil consumption would change, and her bullshit reply was "they all do that". That is not good customer service, no matter how correct her answer is. If I asked "is this normal", then her answer would have been perfect.
Subaru does not define short trips as 5 to 10 miles and I don't believe that a 5 mile trip is a short trip. In 5 miles, everything has time to come up to temp. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it should be in writing, from the manufacturer.
Again, Subaru doesn't define "Coastal living" as severe duty for oil life; it's only for rubber parts.
if you're ever in mn. and have car trouble
please don't come to my shop.
I once had a damaged wheel on my first bike, a Buell Blast. I bought another wheel with a tire on it and needed someone to take the old wheel off, remove the rotor and put it on the newish wheel, then put that wheel on the bike. A certain multi-brand dealership nearby told me they don't work on Buells.
When I asked them what could possibly go wrong with this service-only request, they said to me "What if we need a Buell...bolt or something?" I only wish all service shops would show their colors so early in the relationship.
Ended up doing it myself with the help of a white bucket under the frame. At this point I had only been a rider for a few months so I knew shit about bikes, but it's funny how anger can power you through a job. Those fucking rotor bolts were glued in so hard I broke a torx bit and had to use vice grips on a circular bolt.
Next time, if there is one, heat the rotor bolt first. Much easier.
And to the subi guy. you are no where near warmed up at 5 miles. Warmed up is all the systems up to full temp AND all the condensation byproducts of combustion evaporated off in my book.
Surprised your oil filler cap/ valve cover isn't filled with condensation sludge.
I agree she could have couched it better.
SO can you make any money service writing and be ethical?
No one is addressing the fact that he said the service writer didn't even know what his driving habits were... So none of that means anything.
When they regurgitate a bunch of BS without even listening to you, it's proof that it's BS. Whether it "could possibly" be true in some situations or not.
Yes. I've been doing it since Day One, because that's how I do shit. Ethically. I've been doing it in this area since the early 90s and am working with the kids of some of my earlier customers.
If you tell people the truth, you don't have to remember what you told them. There are service writers locally who sell $1400 30K services on new Subarus, I'm not one of them. I make a decent living, and when I bump into customers at the store or wherever, we often stop and shoot the breeze. I don't have to dodge one aisle over and hide behind the canned peas, and I like it that way.
I'm sure I could make more money hammering people.
FYI I turned wrenches for 12 years prior to locking my tool box and getting behind the counter. Most customers appreciated the fact that I could explain problems with them in a manner they could understand.
Seems pretty simple doesn't it? Thats how I live my life and conduct my work ethics.
That was my MO for 20 years, small dealership so we grew exponentially. In five years became the largest Saab franchise in upstate NY and the owner spent zilch on advertising, sales staff was the same, straight shooters, took transaction a-z, none of this pass the customer off to finance etc. All word of mouth. We had people trading other high line cars in just to do business with us.
95% of our customers would give us carte blanche when they came in for service, many were docs, lawyers business execs etc, and said rather than bother them just do what it needed. Most cars never saw another repair shop either, we did all the work, including selling them tires!!! You can be very efficient if the mechanic does not have to diagnose, estimate, and wait for approval, rather just do it.
That was until the Mega dealership took us over, and started screwing with the way we did business, I left, telling them I was raised too honest to work for them.
Good On Ya, for being a ray of hope amongst the sharks and charlatans!