Things Dealers tell Customers

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by ak_diane, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. justafurnaceman

    justafurnaceman Imaginary

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    Stopped by Gateway BMW of St Louis checking out the bikes and inquired about the HP4 and HP4 Comp. I was told that there was 1 more spot for each if I wanted to put down a deposit (the wife was thankful that I left the checkbook home). I asked about the price and they quoted what they thought that it would be also saying that I was going to pay MSRP and not a cent more. The owner came over to chat and made it a point to say it again that he made enough money selling those bikes at MSRP and that there wasn't any need for charging people more like other dealerships.

    He then told a story of a Porsche dealership trying to do make him pay more on a $119,000 car. :huh He handed back the keys and walked out the door.

    He also said that he had the S1000RR up to 157 mph in Illinois (He's a white haired older gentleman).
  2. Salzig

    Salzig Been here awhile

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    Some years ago at the (former) Ducati/Cagiva/MV Agusta/Husqvarna dealership in my town.

    customer: Listen to the noise my engine it's making

    dealer: You need new crankshaft and bearings

    Customer then tried another (small) shop, owner and mechanic the same person (and a good friend).

    customer: Listen to the noise my engine it's making

    The mechanic just tightened the engine/frame bolts. Noise gone, no charge.


    A bit OT.
    I'm always surpised by the oil changes interval you are reporting.
    Here in Europe (at least in Italy) for new cars, tightest change intervals are 15000km (~9500mi), normal intervals are 25000km (15500mi). Diesel or gasoline doesn't count.
    Last service on my car, a Suzuki SX4 with 15000km, the dealer didn't even changed the oil, as the oil pollution meter on the dash said it would have lasted another ~20000km.
  3. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave I demand proof, sir.

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    How many miles do you expect from your cars / engines?

    We've had a number of different makes and models (some American, some Japanese) that seem to have a good chance of making it 350,000 miles, some 500,000 miles, on the original engine.

    I don't know what Italy's standards and laws are, but in places like Japan it really doesn't matter - they aren't allowed to keep their cars and trucks to too high of mileages anyway, so I'm sure they do longer oil change intervals as well.
  4. PFFOG

    PFFOG Richard Alps-aholic

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    Once I went synthetic back in the 80's I changed the oil in my cars about every 15K miles. And I ran the crap out of them, 2 liter turbos, that I had running with water/alcohol injection so I could run close to 28psi boost, putting down in the neighborhood of 300 hp without detonation. Later years they also pulled my 6x10 enclosed trailer with 3 motorcycles at times, would run hours at 5-7 lbs boost, that is aircraft duty!

    And all three of them were retired at close to 300K miles, not due to mechanical issues, but rust as I live 20 miles from one of the worlds largest salt mines and they spread salt inches thick when it gets slippery.
  5. WVhillbilly

    WVhillbilly Long timer

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    When I went to the BMW dealer in Miami......they didn't tell me anything.
    Because no one would talk to me. At all. Not a greeting. No "can I help you"

    Nothing. Not even after I sat on a new GS.

    So I left.
    Nice looking store tho.
  6. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave I demand proof, sir.

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    Believe it or not, this is the chief complaint of even the car and truck buyers who end up at my store after traveling from Miami-Dade.

    Inevitably I always ask why they would travel so far to buy a car when, 1.) they live in Miami-Dade county and we're actually in northern Broward county, and 2.) they must have passed 10 dealerships that sell the same brand I do.

    Their answer, nearly every time, has been that the sales staff and dealerships of Miami-Dade were either so rude and pushy, or so unhelpful (and I've got to guess it's that some dealership staff down there just don't speak English well is part of the issue as well) (I know I wish I spoke English and Portuguese - I'd be far more effective as a saleman).

    The other percentage of people who travel this far are just those who know our reputation for getting people financed. I guess word spreads amongst those who are prone to forget to make payments or those who have had a car repossessed in the past?

    I really don't know. I do know that people come from too far away in the counties to just claim it's because we're nice to them, lol, but a large part of them do.
  7. Dave in Wi

    Dave in Wi Long timer

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    I had a similar experience at Team Triumph here in Wisconsin a few years ago. It was late summer on a Friday afternoon. I was really interested in the new Tiger 800 and I heard they were very willing to give test rides. So I showed up with my gear.

    Walked into the showroom and there were no other customers, just a woman doing some paperwork behind the counter. She didn't say anything when I walked in, which I thought was a little odd, but whatever...

    I looked around at gear and bikes until I came to the 800. Looked it over in detail, got on t see how it felt, etc. it became obvious that the woman behind the counter was purposefully ignoring me. So I decided to see how long it would take before she would say anything. I continued to look at the bike, get on & off, etc. for 45 minutes. That's as long as I could take it as it ceased to be amusing. I left, and walked by the counter on my way out as she very seriously kept her head down & shuffled papers. I actually wondered if I had walked in while they were closed, I looked but didn't see any hours posted as I left. If I was seriously considering buying the bike I would have said something to her. Weird encounter to say the least.
  8. WVhillbilly

    WVhillbilly Long timer

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    Made the same mistake as I did, should have had $100 bills falling from your pockets when you walked in.

    I would have thought sitting on the bike that had a "don't sit on me" sign would have done it. But no.

    Several sales guys there when I was there, no other customers.

    On the other hand, Darren at Euro Cycles in Wexford, PA is great.
  9. Salzig

    Salzig Been here awhile

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    In Italy there are no laws about mileage limits for cars and trucks. AFAIK neither in other European countries.
    My car has a Fiat engine (no kidding). The same 2.0 liters, direct injected, turbodiesel, Multijet® unit equipped on many Fiat, AlfaRomeo, Lancia cars, and on many Fiat and Citroën commercial vans (Citroën is a french brand, I don't know if it's known in the USA).
    Some versions have up to 170 HP, mine has 135 HP.
    Commercial vans normally reach the mileage you said, I believe a car can too.

    At my actual mileage per year in the cage, I will reach 350,000 miles approximatively in 2080, so I'm not much worried :lol3
  10. justafurnaceman

    justafurnaceman Imaginary

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    Gateway BMW was the opposite. Both times that I've been in there I was talked to in a couple of minutes. Even after telling them that we were only there to look at the bikes they still entertained our questions. When I asked about the HP4 and Competition models the salesman egged me on a little about if I was sure that I didn't want to put down a deposit but it was in fun.

    Morton BMW out of Fredericksburg, VA was the same sort of experience. Friendly people and they let me test ride several bikes and even let me borrow some gear since I was there for some training with the Army and didn't have any. It's going to be hard to decide which store to buy from when I finally pull the trigger.

    It's kind of refreshing when you find these kinds of dealerships.
  11. MJS

    MJS Long timer

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    Honz and the staff at Gateway are just a bunch of great people that love motorcycles. At so many dealers the staff all make an run for the door at closing time. At Gateway they shut the door and the staff will hang around for a beer and just to kick back and BS. I've been lucky enough to get to hang out with them a few times. :D
  12. Salzig

    Salzig Been here awhile

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    If I get your point (my english comprehension sucks), we are saying the same thing. Engine longevity does't depend on close oil changes, if you use quality oil.
    I'm suprised by the manufacturers' indications, and the different indication the same manufacturer asks for the same engine whether it's sold in Europe or in the USA.
  13. jules083

    jules083 Long timer

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    I had never known about the difference, I'm also surprised by it. I would assume that any stress on the car would be similar.

    Perhaps there is an oil quality difference? Our EPA regulates everything it can here in the USA, including oil additives. There are quite a few additives that are supposed to be good for a motor that are limited here.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
  14. Salzig

    Salzig Been here awhile

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    I think we use the same JASO / API classifications :dunno
  15. PT Rider

    PT Rider Been here awhile

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    Yes there is a quality difference. The oil is better and costs more. The customers expect to pay more and run the oil much longer.

    The EPA does not regulate additives. It does regulate what comes out of the exhaust, and certain additives kill catalytic converters. There are other additives that do the same job of engine protection, sometimes better, but cost the oil companies more.

    In addition to the JASO, API, and ILSAC standards, the auto makers may have their own sets of oil standards. GM's dexos standards are one example. The Japanese motorcycle makers use the JASO 4t four stroke engine standard and the MA wet clutch standard, as well as API standards. I don't know if the European makers have their own standards. If so, it would be in the owner's manual or sticker on the bike--"Oil of xW-xx viscosity must meet standard such&such".

    Yes, and.... The oil change intervals are a recommendation. If the owner has oil analysis reports to show that the oil remains good, there is no need to change the oil. I know, bothersome and expensive. Synthetic oil will run longer due to its slower rate of oxidation. That is part of the syn spec of the base oil classification with higher saturates (polyunsaturated cooking oil is good, hydrogenated saturated...with hydrogen...motor oil is good), but there are variations between different qualities of synthetic base oils. And synthetic has higher viscosity index, so it thins a bit less when very hot and thickens less when very cold. Polyaphaolefin base oil has a higher film strength than Group III "synthetic" (very highly refined petroleum) base oil. All contribute somewhat to more engine protection and longer oil life.
  16. triplenickel

    triplenickel Long timer

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    I think it's just shady marketing to suck money out of people. I mean like earlier in the thread a man buys a commuter car only to find out that commuting is considered severe service. WTF is it for then? Now you add in their standard strong arm tactics regarding warranty and the need to have service done at the dealership with only OEM parts and you've got a money maker.
  17. Salzig

    Salzig Been here awhile

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    Cars and bikes are way more expensive in Europe then in America, maybe they try to balance lower selling prices with higher maintenance costs.
  18. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

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    Do you think an engine run for ten, fifteen minutes at a time in city traffic will last as long, and be as problem free as one run for an hour or more at a time at highway speeds out on an interstate? Don't think so. It never gets to optimum operating temperature(or just gets there) and is run in stop and go traffic, hence the severe duty classification.
  19. triplenickel

    triplenickel Long timer

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    I reckon 15 minutes of driving on a gas pot should get the oil up to operating temps. I wasn't trying to debate whether or not you have to get an engine warmed up properly or not I was saying that buying a commuter car to be told using it to commute is severe service. Why do you think there is a diff between here and euro spec intervals?
  20. atomicalex

    atomicalex silly aluminum boxes

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    The reason for the difference between the US and EU OCI specs is that there are difference environmental regulations in each zone.

    In the EU, they panic about water contamination. So they load up the oils with additives so that the OCI can be extended to long time, reducing the likelihood of spills during changes.

    In the US, air quality is king, so the additive levels are reduced to keep the catalyitic converters happy.

    In the early 2000s, there was a rather intense issue with VW and BMW because the US oils did not meet the OE oil specs. Dealers were buying oil by the SAE viscosity grade instead of the OE specification, and more than a few engines bought it hard due to that. Now, much more attention is paid to having uniform specs that can meet both sets of demands.

    Remember, up to temp is not the same as passing emissions readiness. My OBDII Passat collects data on the mean time between readiness tests and the time since the last one. That is a pretty reliable indicator of severe or not severe driving.