This can't be good.

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by bemiiten, Nov 26, 2006.

  1. bemiiten

    bemiiten League of Adventures

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    At 55k, My '00 GS has it's first major problem. Seems to be coming from the transmission. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CShKkyGnLGY
    The noise disappears soon as the clutch is pulled in. Rolling in neutral with clutch out reving the motor will not make the grinding sound worse. Sounds a little rocky in neutral ,but soon as it's under a slight load all hell brakes loose with a nasty rhythmic rumble/grinding sound. Trans shifts perfect. Oil is new & full. Sounds too bad to be the push rod bearing. ​
    Anyone had a similar experience with a oil head 6 speed? I'm tearing into it to check the driveshaft first . Let you all know what I find.​
    #1
  2. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    Yikes, that doesn't sound right at all. Way more than the typical rumble at idle.

    Just off the cuff, it sounds like a clutch plate comming apart. But it is hard to say.

    Jim :brow
    #2
  3. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

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    I'm pretty sure you problem is do to the rivets on the clutch making contact with the other two plates

    If the problem was on the shaft you will still ear similar sounds since the shaft never stops rotating.
    #3
    miker325 and Beecher Snipes like this.
  4. bemiiten

    bemiiten League of Adventures

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    Managed to dig a little deeper tonight.
    [​IMG]
    Bummer,It's not a bad u joint. To easy. :D Really don't think it's a clutch problem either. The sound stops when the clutch is pulled , but that means the input shaft unloads and stops spinning to. The video is a little deceiving. I was trying to recreate the sound by applying some rear brake in gear to simulate a load. The sound of the trans teeth rattling overshadow the cyclic rumble that is best heard in the last 25 seconds of the recording. This rumble is much worse under load and sounds like a bearing running with no lubrication. The sound has me convinced it's a trans shaft bearing. Beginning to wander if this leak has something to do with it. Input shaft bearing perhaps? ​
    [​IMG]
    No choice now but to pull it off and open the tranny and have a look.​
    #4
  5. Banjax

    Banjax Been here awhile

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    My first post on ADVrider!.
    My 1150 sounds just like that as well.
    On centrestand,gear engaged,let out clutch.Bag of spanners in the washing machine.
    What does it sound like when you ride it normally on the street?.Is it the same?.Mine sounds normal under these circumstances.
    I have been told that the angle of the drive shaft when on the stand is too much and it creates noise.That and the motors power pulses thru the transmission when its unloaded cause vibration.Good luck with it.
    #5
  6. ezgizza99

    ezgizza99 some guy on the internet

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    a little throttle body sync... or maybe one of your valves is .5 nanometers misadjusted....:rofl

    i just had to! sorry! :lol3


    yeah - i vote for clutch rivets or clutch coming apart - I have a pushrod bearing failing (or a warped pushrod) and it sounds way different than that....
    #6
  7. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    Just to be clear. In gear? Clutch handle released?

    Was it on the centerstand with the rear wheel free spinning? Does it do it under load? Does it do it with the trans in neutral and the clutch handle released, pulled in?

    Jim :brow
    #7
  8. scarysharkface

    scarysharkface Imbecile

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    I don't see a leak, only some sticky gasket goo from possible previous work, or perhaps from initial assembly...

    John
    #8
  9. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    [​IMG]

    Actually that is a pretty common front seal leak on the 12GS series, and several have had it on the 1150 as well.

    It is a slow leak combined with clutch dust.

    Jim :brow

    PS Mine did the same, as well as a rear seal that required a new clutch disc and clutch slave cylinder.
    #9
  10. bemiiten

    bemiiten League of Adventures

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    The video shows the bike on the center stand, wheel spinning in first gear. It is normal for the trans to make allot of noise under this condition, but not on the road with a steady smooth load. When the bike is in neutral , it really isn't to noticeable. Put the bike in any gear and apply a load from slight to full out ,and it is a horrible , unmistakable cyclic grinding :eek1. Sounds like choo choo choo choo.... :cry Speeds up with road speed. Pull in the clutch and it all but disappears.​
    Completely convinced that it is a trans shaft bearing. I hope I can find evidence when I open the trans. It started while riding this weekend. By the time I was sure I was hearing something wrong and pulled out the earplugs to confirm, I was 75 miles from home. Rode it back with no issues except the grinding. Pulled the black magnetic drain plug on the bottom of the trans to find it filled with fine metallic fuzz, but nothing any bigger. I never pulled the magnetic drain plug before and I wished I had. So if you have a 1150 , do yourself a favor and clean it off next service. I think the bearings in the trans are sealed (?) which means any grindings should stay in the bearing. The leak at the clutch housing has been there for 15,000 miles. Figured it to be a rear main because I could not detect any gear oil smell. Will find out for sure tonight​
    #10
  11. bemiiten

    bemiiten League of Adventures

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    Here's a trick to help get the clutch disk centerd.
    [​IMG]
    Trace around the pressure plate with a pencil and you can use the marks to confirm the disk is centerd, Assuming the same disk is going back in. Not so sure about this one. Manual shows a wear limit of 4.8mm , This one measures 6.3mm.
    Looks like the rear main is not the source of my leak.​
    [​IMG]
    The trans input seal on the other hand...​
    [​IMG]
    #11
  12. Komito

    Komito back in the saddle

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    homeward bound....
    Your problem lies in a very simple fact: you were tricked. Its actually a Harley and not a GS, sorry...:rofl
    #12
  13. 4wheeldog

    4wheeldog Long timer

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    Looks to me like you may have the dread input shaft spline problem. Did you have problems shifting? Your clutch disc splines look worn out, and the input shaft appears to have a lot of taper. Good luck!
    #13
  14. bemiiten

    bemiiten League of Adventures

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    Bike shifts fine. Splines look OK in person. I did a spline lube at 35k. At 55k the splines are dry again, even after using the Honda molly 60. The spline wear looks about the same as before.​
    #14
  15. bemiiten

    bemiiten League of Adventures

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    Smoking gun found!
    With the trans pulled and cleaned it's time. I use a long drift to drive out the two pins where the two halves of the trans mate. I heat up the case first to loosen them up a bit and add a little penetrating fluid. They take a considerable whack to move so the heat seems like a good idea even though the manual makes no mention for this step.​
    Next order of business is to heat the bearing points in the rear cover. I use two heat guns for 15 minuets. No soup yet.​
    [​IMG]
    This laser temp reader takes out the guesswork. ​
    After about 30 minuets I'm reading 170 degrees. I decide to give it a try. The back half of the trans slips off easily by hand. Sweet! :clap
    [​IMG]
    #15
  16. bemiiten

    bemiiten League of Adventures

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    My biggest fear was to go through all this and not be able to detect a bad bearing. All the rear bearings are turning smoothly and seem fine. :arg
    I start heating the front case. ​
    [​IMG]
    And heat some more. and some more. It shows 205 but my hands are to oily to grab the camera. :lol3
    Around 220 degrees the input and output shaft bearings are moving easy ready to drop out. The intermediate shaft will not budge. I go at it for a hour and a half with temps up around 230 with no luck. I'm getting frustrated so this round is lost. ​
    Chinese takeout intermission. :lol3
    #16
  17. bemiiten

    bemiiten League of Adventures

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    At dinner my fortune cookie reads , "If you don't fail now and again, it's a sign that your playing it safe"
    I consider my options​
    1. Put the trans in the oven and bake until the shafts come out, or clouds of smoking gear oil attract the fire company.
    2. Make up a jig and pull it out while hot.
    3. Give the heat guns another try.
    I concentrate all the heat on the intermediate shaft. 260 degrees and still no give. I support the intermediate shaft by holding it in one hand with a set of gear puller jaws. I elevate the entire assembly off the bench and ,not wanting to play it too safe :lol3 , give the back of the bell housing a few whacks with a rubber mallet. Finally it relents after a dozen or so soft blows.​
    I am relieved to see the intermediate bearing clearly looks and feels completely buggered. No doubt , This is the culprit! [​IMG]
    All three front bearings show signs of disscoloration , but only the intermediate feels bad.​
    [​IMG]
    #17
  18. osii

    osii Disgruntled Time Traveler

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    will you come to my house and fix my GS?
    #18
  19. bemiiten

    bemiiten League of Adventures

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    Output shaft.​
    [​IMG]
    Input shaft​
    [​IMG]
    #19
  20. bemiiten

    bemiiten League of Adventures

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    California :wink: No problemo, I'm on a plane. Now I may need to take it for a test ride afterwards! :D
    #20