Tiger 800r or tenere

Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by Jersey, Nov 15, 2012.

  1. Gryphon12

    Gryphon12 Long timer

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    Please feel free to correct me, but wasn't the start to the whole multi-cylinder adventure bike segment the Paris-Dakar Rally? There was a multi-cylinder class. I'm no racing expert or Dakar expert - I'm just trying to recall the history. BMW had an R1100GS PD, didn't they? And this race spawned the KTM 950 Adventure. Was the first Honda Africa Twin developed before or after the early PD races?

    In any event, the PD Rally is an open desert, long distance endurance race. I don't believe that there were any tight woods segments, or significant water / mud sections, although I could be wrong. We are now, years later, asking multi-cylinder ADV bikes to perform well over a much wider range of terrain and weather. It's no wonder that the offerings and our satisfaction with them is such a rich topic of conversation.

    P.S. Wasn't the PD Rally also the driver for development of the Suzuki DR-Big series (DR-750, DR-800) in the large displacement thumper class? Then the KTM 640 ADV in the 650cc class? And now a new Honda in the new 450cc class? Too bad international politics keep getting in the way of that race!
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  2. bluesman

    bluesman Long timer

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    Honda AT and Supertenere (original one) were answer to early PD races that were won by BMW twins with scaring consistency. In fact Honda that raced in PD had almost nothing in common with AT750 and very little in common with AT650, the first one. AT750 does not carry one single part copying PD bike. Even frame different. It is pure marketing.
    Yamaha Supertenere 750 have VERY little in common with PD Supertenere. Very little. I once (together with friend who are S10 fan) made lists of what is shared between PD S10 and "civilian" S10. That was funny....very little indeed.
    DR Big was developed in 1987 as answer to multi PD racers with attempt to match raw power it had to compete against.
    Surprisingly, probably because of tight budget and bikes built not by something like HRC but by Gaston Rahier own shop they share lots with civilian version 750 (and consequentially 800). So - DR Big stock closest to DR Zeta PD bike mechanically. Just for info - KTM was almost non-existent in PD at time it all started.
    You are totally spot on about all this deal. Those are all open piste bikes, not meant to be taken into any at all technical stuff. People still do it, but it is like trying to hit small nail with sledgehammer. Pointless really. But I see many folks getting fun from lifting heavy bikes and crawling through tight terrain that any light enduro would simply fly through.
    I use gym for heavy lifting :lol3 and my tiger only for open piste.
    #22
  3. GrahamD

    GrahamD Long timer

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    I use Gym and S10. Me Tarzan.
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  4. bluesman

    bluesman Long timer

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    You Aussies always have your own way! :D :freaky
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  5. Bain Dramage

    Bain Dramage Been here awhile

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    This and the post by bluesman are the best I have read regarding the genesis and purpose of "adventure" bikes.

    These bikes were (and still are) designed largely for primitive (unpaved and/or poorly maintained) roads, like the Haul Road.

    You will never wish you had a heavier bike when riding offroad, and you'll never wish you had a lighter bike when riding down the freeway - so any bike that does both is a compromise.
    #25
  6. burmbuster

    burmbuster Long timer

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    Good post. I agree that the "thought it was going to break" is unfounded.:huh
    Ride them both and make a list of the pros and cons. That's what I did.
    #26
  7. Gryphon12

    Gryphon12 Long timer

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    Bluesman - thanks! I know that there are some very serious Dakar wizards out there who would have taken me out to the woodshed. Your kinder approach is much appreciated.
    #27
  8. benjamin1031

    benjamin1031 Adventurer

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    I've been reading through this thread and I know that the models have changed a little but, I'm looking at these bikes (800XC and S10) as my next ADV bike. I wanted to see if a thought of mine had any validity. If you take these bikes off road and DO drop them (which in my world is a fact of life since I am a novice) shouldn't "cost of repair" be a factor in deciding? Isn't the Yamaha MUCH cheaper and easier to get parts for? I like the idea of the triumph but I must face the reality that I'm going to break something in the San Juan Mountains. My xr650r does good at being dropped and not breaking but its only 300#.
    #28
  9. kvango

    kvango Been here awhile

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    Test road a Tiger XC - and ended up getting a S10.
    The Tiger is Fun - but what makes for a great test ride also can be considered weaknesses as an all-around bike.
    The engine feels great - and is easy to keep in the power band - because the transmission is very close-ratio. And gearing is too low for long cruising (and too high for off road). Easy to change the cogs - but that will push the bike into revving higher on the slab.

    I also found the seating position a little cramped - knees bent up a little, and standing position a little awkward due to the tank. I could probably go up on the seat a little (although much higher and I would not be able to flat-foot both feet at stop).

    The Tiger would be easier around town - it is lighter and responds quicker to steering input.

    The Tenere feels very solid on the road. It handles well, but takes a more deliberate input. I don't have 'all-day' experience with the Tiger, but I would guess the Tenere is more comfortable after 10 hours on the road - due to a lower revving engine, better wind management (I do have an aftermarket screen), better seating position. But I'm sorting out the drive-ability of the S10 (ECU flash, FI adjustments). Then some Tigers have stepper motor issues - both bikes have (small) issues - but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend either. (I think both have improved for 2014).

    I only have a few hours on dirt/gravel - but I would guess the Tiger would be more manageable due to the weight difference - although the S10 engine/gearing is more suitable for the dirt. Really depends on rider ability.


    If you through cost difference into the mix - the S10 is a better value. Easier to find good deals (I bought my 2012 S10 (15k miles) for $2500 less than a (new 2013) Tiger XC - and it included $1000 in luggage. (And about $6k less than a used 1190R). I'm putting the savings towards a 'real' dirt bike. :ricky
    #29
  10. browneye

    browneye PIN IT & BANG GEARS

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    No...it's a stupid old thread. Why the fuck did you dredge it up again. :rofl


    Noob has it nailed pretty good here. (kvango, LOL)
    Just go ride 'em both if you want a big adventure bike and decide which one fits YOUR style.
    I have a XC and love it. Also rode a S10 and it too is a very nice bike. It's just too damn big for me though. :deal
    #30
  11. BryanCO

    BryanCO CO Rider

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    This!
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  12. BryanCO

    BryanCO CO Rider

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    I dropped my Tiger (now sold) twice (same spot) near the top of Imogene pass. With Alt Rider crash bars and hard panniers, no damaged occurred to the bike. Same results for a couple of drops going over Mosquito pass.

    The whole picking up vs weight discussion is interesting. Picking up the Tiger in my driveway or on a dirt road would be relatively easy. Picking it up on a steep incline on a trail of larger rocks at 12000-13000 feet of elevation was a pain in the ass.
    #32
  13. BryanCO

    BryanCO CO Rider

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    The Tiger can be a great hiway bike. I rode mine on multiple 600+ mile days. I dropped one tooth on the counter sprocket for off road riding. This past Aug, rode it 3800 miles in 7 days. While the gearing was fine, I think I would swap back for that long of a ride.

    Re value - I think the ST is an excellent value but I sold my 2012 XC (10k mikes, excellent condition, a number of desirable mods) for $9k...
    #33