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Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by locksmith777, Aug 12, 2012.
Has this comparison been done before on another thread ? I'd be interested to hear peoples views .
This should be fun...again.
Uh oh! Pandoras box!
I thought there was another one somewhere too. Did you search?
Also found this.
If you want an honest evaluation by a mag that does not rely on advertisement revenue to survive, read this:
Don't get hung up on which one is best. They are both Adventure bikes. It really depends on what that means to you. They are just at different places within that sprectrum.
This is very interesting, as I had pretty much narrowed it down to these two bikes... although I have yet to actually RIDE the XC (can't find one).
I did ride the new Triumph Explorer, it has GREAT power!! The BMW (800) seemed more "refined" however...
I guess I should wait ANOTHER SEVERAL MONTHS to test ride an XC, before I decide....
I did a comparison of the two, test rode them both, and looked into maintenance costs and quality issues.
Ended up buying a Super Tenere. Not what I thought I would do when I started out. Very satisfied.
Can you elaborate on why you ultimately ended up on the Tenere? Was it strictly maintenance costs?
I don't want to rehash a bunch of details here.
But I would certainly do some searches about quality issues and recurring problems. Although many brands and models have some problems, one needs to weigh what is being reported and what is likely behind it. Sample thread to sort through and consider.
Regarding maintenance costs, it is good to look at some common things like valve inspection interval and the cost for that service. Even if someone does the work themselves, a dealer cost of $800 for a valve adjustment might indicate that it can be a time consuming procedure.
I was very interested in the 800GS, but I personally would not have been comfortable taking it on long trips due common recurring problems. No doubt some others have had trouble free experiences.
Other people have other opinions on these matters and that is fine. From what I looked into in my own shopping, I decided not to choose either of the two 800s mentioned. No doubt others have and I'm sure many are very satisfied.
I've done some research as well... I now have it narrowed down to 3 bikes (I have more time than money).
* Super Tenere (currently tied for 1st, due to perceived reliability, shaft drive and overall "value")
* KTM 990 Adventure (tied for 1st, due to power, off-road handling and the fact that I love KTM's)
* 2013 V-Strom 650 (Up front cost/Value... Reliability)
I've road the ST, KTM and an older DL 650. The KTM was FUN!!!
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Go for fun. Life is short. really. value and reliability arent fun.
On another note, little said about the xc here. I report total dependability and great fun. Decent value and I expect great reliability.
and fun and fun and fun
I'll have fun riding it in the morning at 30F.
Oh...the infamous reliability topic.
If "research done on Internet" then statement about anything in this list would be incorrect. There is common recurring issues with all bikes in the list - including praised Supertenere 1200. KTM - more issues, BMW - much less on late models, Tiger - much less if old model serviced with recalls or new one etc., DL - less issues.
Even for venerable Strom - I can name you 5-10 people I know who would tell you that Strom is sh...t unreliable and they had cranckshaft problems, top end problems etc.
If you are not mechanic for life or hobby (for me it is hobby to fix bikes) e.g. until you laid you hands on actual bike you not likely to know what really could go wrong. And if you not ridden it - any "research" can be thrown out of window.
The only "safe" option is to go buy 1993 Honda Civic - damn thing never breaks at all.
Remember that old sticket "if it has .... .or wheels it is going to give you problems!"?
Test drive all you can! Let your "gut feeling" do the choice. Bike should be pleasure to ride no matter what. And fun to ride does not mean reliability issues.
I chose Tiger over 800GS for following reasons:
1. Ergos - for some reason on GS800 top frame beams between tank and seat pushing hard on my insight thigh, making it really painful right away.
2. I found that for me - coming from different bikes background, but fresh off 800cc thumper and 1000 cc 90 degrees Vtwin motor was nice but bland and not that elastic as I thought.
3. I did not like GS800 on paved road. I found handling to be not really "carving" stable etc.
Everything opposite was Tiger FOR ME.
1. Ergos - I did not even felt that I am on other bike, it matched my carefully tuned DR800 on ergos
2. Engine is a gem and elasticity of it is crazy good - 40 to 210 kmph in 6th gear? No problem. Bark at 6000 rpms and pull - no problem. Ride it as you want.
3. I was impressed with predictability, stability and sureness of handling on road.
As offroad driver I s...k. Therefore I was equally bad on GS and Tiger and bike made no difference, but Tiger allowed me "do it all in 1st gear".
I think this is the reason I chose the KTM 990 Adventure, after writing down all the comparison stats! & I'm expecting my KTM to be at least as reliable as the other two, thanks...:huh
I was very interested in the 800XC, after owning a trouble-free 955i for many years. I was also impressed by the reports of fantastic fuel efficiency from the F800GS. these two bikes were nagging at me so what did I do?....I tested the latest 2012 KTM and was hooked!
I'm the first to agree that I don't need such an extreme bike for everyday use. The 800XC or the 800GS would do everything I need it to do, except arguably the KTM is better 2-up. General running costs for the Katoom would be higher, no doubt.
You can spend valuable riding time reading all the reviews and listening to enthusiastic owners. Sometimes you've got to go with your heart.
....and thats a fact.
I wonder how long this thread will survive THIS time around before getting punted?
So far I have 22,218 miles on my 2012 Tiger 800XC, 10,438 of those were on a trip to Alaska.
The only issues I have had was the loss of the front fender in heavy sticky mud on the Dalton, and a failure to idle.
The idle failure was taken care of with a simple cleaning and lubrication of the stepper motor shaft. No further problems with that.
This bike has been flawless in all other respects, I would highly recommend this bike to anyone.
And where do you get this from? I heard that too, but I also read quite a few answers saying that this is not the case.
Not that I give all that much credibility to it, but it like would have been corrected if it were wrong.
The engines are manufactured and assembled in China. The majority of the other parts are made in China but the bikes are assembled in Germany. Try looking for information in other areas than Wikipedia.
Could you post up your source? Perhaps you are mistaking it for the Rotax single. The engine was assembled using Rotax parts by Loncin in China for a few years. Now they manufacture the engine.
According to this eye witness http://www.mychinamoto.com/forums/showthread.php?1566-Loncin-Factory-Tour-Report-on-Bikeadvice-in
Loncin does have a production line for the 800 engine, it is in lower state of tune and not the one sold world wide. It does not state so, but probably in some bike for internal consumption. They do the same thing with BMW's M3 and M5 cars.
What other parts are made in China? The wheels are made by Behr, a German firm that also supplies KTM on some models. The Electronics and fuel delivery systems are made by Bosch, another German firm, though they do have plants all over the world, just not in China. I found my seat base was marked Taiwan.
I know you do not like wikipedia, but they do have a list of engines made by Rotax. The F800 is still included and the single is not.
Is the Husky Nuda engine, made in China? It is based on the F800 engine and it is referred to in many Mag evaluations as Rotax made.
Behr wheels.....Tianjin, China
Bosch has over 90% of their products made in China. 10 factory's in China.
You may be correct on the single Rotax though. I know one is produced in Loncin and the other in Austria.
I own the XC and I am sure there are several parts on my bike that are made there as well. What isn't made there anymore?
The F800GS was my second choice in middle weight bikes. They both have a huge following.
My Bosch electrics have the country of origin on them, It is Hungary not China. Maybe it would have been better, as I type on my made in China computer. Behr is a huge conglomerate that makes many products all over the world. Its motorcycle wheels are made in Vogtland Germany.
Some where down the road, Loncin may produce larger engines for BMW as they signed a contract to do that in 7/12. For now the engine for the F800 is still Rotax in Austria.
Loncin is not some small concern, they make 40,000 engines a month compared to Triumhs 50,000 a year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhBmA-qrW9o
I suspect you do have some made in Thailand parts on the bike. Triumph has a large plastic body part factory there. Check the 11th number of your vin and see it is marked with a T to see where the frame was made.
I question the wisdom of BMW big bike motors being made in China as it still has a stigma attached. Unwarranted in my opinion
One benefit hopefully is reduced cost. The new Husky Terra is out with a 58hp 650 engine that just rips, and is priced lower than the BMW offerings, the engines are made by Loncin.