Tiger Tales - Dialling in the 800XC for the dirt

Discussion in 'British Beasts: Triumph Tigers' started by Burren Rider, Jul 6, 2011.

  1. btao

    btao RIP Lilolita

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    Just make yourself :EDIT *achem*, I mean buy one of these fantastic products!: http://www.endurostar.com/ts2_instr.htm :deal

    I should have... Works great. You just hook it under the half you want to raise up. Either the hole behind the footpeg for rear, or crash bar or other spot for the front. Packs up nice, and is a lot lighter and easier to use than the regular center stand on the trail.
  2. browneye

    browneye PIN IT & BANG GEARS

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    Geez...don't rip off Steve's product, just buy one. They're like $35.

    :huh
  3. professorkx

    professorkx Been here awhile

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    I've looked at those. will they handle the 500 pound tiger?
  4. professorkx

    professorkx Been here awhile

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    Agree, this dude figured out a cool product, put it together in a nice package and priced it reasonably. However, for solo riding, not sure how I would get the wheel off the ground while installing this little tool by myself. Tiger weighs 500 pounds, so not like lifting a dirt bike. Anyone used one of these on a heavy bike to change a tire in the field?
  5. btao

    btao RIP Lilolita

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    You just put the side stand down, hook it under where you want, then put your shoulder into it to rock it up onto the stand and just kick it under a bit, voila. Really easy to so by yourself, and much easier than trying to get the center stand down if you're a lighter guy (or gal) or tired, where you really have to lift and push the weight.
  6. browneye

    browneye PIN IT & BANG GEARS

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    Steve demonstrates the endurostar with a 950SE. I got one for the husky but carry it on the Tiger for propping front or rear up while on the center. I suspect it's do-able with the bigger bike, you just lean into the bike against it's side stand and slip the little prop in where it will stay - props up either end of the bike. It's not like you're lifting the bike up.

    That said, not sure I'd want to have to do that with a full load of camping gear. :huh
  7. professorkx

    professorkx Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the info, I placed an order. Let's face it, $40 isn't much money for an item that will keep me from dead lifting the Tiger.
  8. btao

    btao RIP Lilolita

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    I think you'll like it. I made my own because I wanted it beefier and stainless all around since I use it in the garage for general maintenance too. The tiger is a big bike....

    Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
  9. professorkx

    professorkx Been here awhile

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    Received this clutch pack from Barnett yesterday:

    http://www.barnettclutches.com/1977/triumph/0/0/2011-triumph-675.html

    Last night, I removed the stock clutch (which looked like it had been in a fire) and matched fiber and steel plates to the Barnett unit. Everything slipped in place as it should, and the Barnett kit included the small first fiber, so I was feeling pretty confident.

    I measured old and new pack, and as expected, the stock pack was badly worn. Soaked fibers in oil and installed the clutch. I also measured the new springs, and they appeared to be straight replacements, but a little stiffer than stock.

    Once installed, I adjusted cable at the engine to full extension, with the final adjustment for play at the lever. Started bike and tested. I was concerned about the heavier spring, but impact on clutch pull is negligible. Ran the bike through a heat cycle to check for leaks, and all is good. Tomorrow will be the road test, but quite frankly, I only expect to have to do a little fine tuning of the adjustment and that's about it.

    A few observations:

    1. The Barnett fibers have much larger pads, with reasonable spacing between the pads. The stock pads on the fibers are very small in comparison, with small spacing. I'm not sure if this will make a difference, just an observation.

    2. The new steel plates do not have the dimples that are on the stock plates. There has been some discussion on the dimples, and if they result in more wear...greater cooling...or? I kept the stock clutch, but I'm not expecting to have to swap in the stock steel plates.

    Now the fun starts, as it's time to put the Barnett to the test on real trails this weekend on a 3 day ride. Will post again if I learn anything new, but I really doubt I will have any more information until I get a few thousand miles on the clutch.

    For now, the Barnett clutch is an option to stock and Surflex, which is out of stock until the first part of July. We have two more Tigers with fried clutches, so will be ordering/installing Barnett units for these as well.

    Now, before everyone gets all concerned that the Tiger has a weak clutch, that's the wrong conclusion. We worked the clutch pretty hard on our last ride, and I think we need to learn to trust the fuel injection more instead of leaning on slipping the clutch as was the case with the dirt bikes. These bikes don't flame out easily, but this is a learning curve for dirt bike guys like us. The stock clutch may not be up to serious off road use, but if there is an aftermarket solution, problem is easily solvable.
  10. PirateDunk

    PirateDunk Adventurer

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    Keen to head what you think about the shifting smoothness if you think it stays the same or not.

    I think I might give the heavier springs a go too. It's good wrist exercise. The tiger has a very light clutch feel, it will take a lot to make it as heavy as my hydraulic KTM640's was.
  11. professorkx

    professorkx Been here awhile

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    First ride today with the Barnett clutch, and the clutch does in fact have a heavier feel because of the new springs, but as you noted, it felt too light stock. The "feel" of clutch engagement is much more positive, more like my dirt bikes. As for being too heavy, not near as heavy as either of my Harleys (one belt drive dry clutch and one stock wet clutch) or all of my dirt bikes 450cc and greater, so I doubt there will be any adjustment period.

    As for shifting, hitting neutral shifting from first to second seems to be gone. Not sure why a clutch pack would have this impact, but I routinely hit neutral with the stock clutch, and have yet to hit neutral with the Barnett unit. However, this means neutral was a little hard to find when I started the ride this morning, but took about 10 minutes to adjust, so no longer a problem, as it just takes a lighter touch to hit neutral...just like every other bike I have owned. Conclusion, I like this aspect of the change, but don't understand why a clutch would have any impact on this.

    All other shifts up/down seem to be the same. Tonight I will adjust the clutch so I have a little more free-play at the lever, but since both adjustments are full out, this should just take 1 or 2 rotations at the lever.
  12. boinoodle

    boinoodle Old and Cautious

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    Is this the set you ordered?
    Triumph Complete Clutch Kit- Kevlar

    Part# 303-75-10675
  13. professorkx

    professorkx Been here awhile

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    Yup.
  14. ducatirdr

    ducatirdr Re-entry Noob

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    Still waiting for my bike to get back from the dealer. This has been 3 weeks. It appears that Triumph is replacing the clutch under warranty. I haven't picked it up yet so I don't know if that is parts and labor or just parts. I did pick up a Renthal 15 tooth counter shaft sprocket.

    Glad I have other toys to play with. This would be much uglier if it were my only bike.

    Thanks for the info on the Barnett solution. I hope I don't need it in another 4500 miles. But if I do.... I'll be using that rather a stock setup.

    It a twist of fate my KTM 350 EXC-F started slipping its clutch during the New England Classic trail ride last weekend. It was due as the thing has many hours of enduro and turkey runs on it in too tall a gearing before I finally brought it down to standard exc gearing. I'm going to try a Rekluse Core 3.0 on that! Imagine a Rekluse on the Tiger.... :D
  15. lmychajluk

    lmychajluk Long timer

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    Yesterday, a fellow inmate and I, neither of us with much dirt experience, decided to explore some of the local 'dirt' roads near his house in central NJ. Well, it seems like 'dirt' road in that area really means 'sand'. Anyway, we had some fun checking out these roads, though not so much chugging through 3-8"+ of sand in spots. I put up a video of one section of our adventure if you want to see what we were dealing with.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=f9xYUVHtzgU

    We only did these roads for a couple of miles, but once we got back on the road and was able to open up the throttle a bit, I immediately felt the clutch slipping. It felt as if I had no power over 5000rpm or so. Having read some of the posts here about the Tiger clutch offroad, I thought I was being really careful about using the clutch, but I guess not. I'm going to try and adjusting the clutch a bit (the engagement is really close to full out on the handle, and may have been knocked out of whack by my spill a the end of the video), but I think I'll probably have to replace it, which I hope I can get done by Friday when I'm scheduled to attend the AltRider Conserve the Ride Event in PA. Going to try and get my hands on the Barnett kit mentioned above.

    Edit - Here's another video that shows some of the deeper sandy parts a bit better - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9OYO9nhG1o
  16. ducatirdr

    ducatirdr Re-entry Noob

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    Got the bike back yesterday. It has the 15 tooth and I don't notice much of a difference on the street. Maybe a bit more whine from the engine but its not unpleasant. Clutch feel is worse than it was new even with stock parts. Maybe it needs to break in or I'm used to my dirtbikes I've been hammering lately. Either way it s back and I wonder for how long... I may take a ride by the KTM dealer to look at the new R.
  17. lmychajluk

    lmychajluk Long timer

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    A couple of questions about the Barnett kit and the install, in case I have to do it myself. (Sorry, outside of basic oil changes and bolt-on type stuff, I don't do much of my own work, so please bear with me...)

    I'm looking at the Tiger Service Manual. Disconnect the clutch cable and remove the clutch cover seems pretty straightforward. The SM doesn't mention it, but I'm assuming that the oil needs to be drained first? (I only ask because to me it would make sense to, but, though the SM mentions removing the seat to disconnect the battery, there's no mention of this.) Also, the Service Manual says to record the 'orientation' of the components - do I need note the angular position of the pack, or is it just referring to the stacking order?

    The stock stack is 7 friction plates, 2 x 1.6mm steel plates, 2 x 2mm steel plates, plus an outer and an inner plate. The Barnett kit is 9 Friction plates and 8 steel plates. Is there an inner and outer plate included with the Barnett kit? Is it just a matter of stacking up the alternating friction & steel plates until the 42.2mm stack height (per the service manual) is reached?

    Can you re-use the anti-judder washer and spring, or do I need to get my hands on a new set? I'm also guessing these are not included when measuring the clutch stack?

    I guess I would need to get a clutch cover gasket from a Triumph dealer. Is this normally a 'stock' part, or should I expect to wait for it?

    Thanks for any insight and tips!
  18. professorkx

    professorkx Been here awhile

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    Just swapped in the Barnett clutch and have almost 1000 miles on the new pack.

    1. All of the friction plates are the same except the first one to go in place, as this one is smaller to allow for the Anti-judder spring and washer, so make sure you identify this smaller plate and make sure it's in the right spot. The SM notes the outer plate was different, but I could not see a difference in the new pack except for the first fiber plate.

    2. I don't see any reason to replace the Anti-judder spring or washer. I inspected, and these look to be hard to damage without some type of catastrophic event.

    3. The different thickness steel plates appear to be for height adjustment when you check the pack thickness. However, there is quite a lot of adjustment on the clutch cable, so I am unsure why so much attention is paid to getting the exact right height. Heck, as the fibers wear, the thickness changes, which is why we adjust the cable over time. The only advantage I could think of would be to get maximum life out of your fibers by setting the pack at the outside limit up front. However, the Barnett kit does not come with extra steel plates, so you would need to either use stock steel plates or purchase extra plates in different thicknesses for this process. Too much work for me, so I just installed and made sure that the clutch would release with the cable extended.

    4. You don't need to drain the oil as with a dirt bike, as the oil is well below the clutch pack.

    5. After initial adjustment, I went for a ride, and had to adjust the clutch. I assume this is due to excess oil between the plates. Just remember, that your initial adjustment will not be your last, as you need to take a ride and continue to fine tune. I think I adjusted after 10 miles and again after about 50 miles, but have not touched the adjustment after the second time. If you don't fine tune adjustment, you risk running your clutch partially engaged, which means you will burn the clutch quickly.

    6. Yes, you need a new gasket. I cleaned the surface and didn't use any adhesive and have not had any leaks.

    7. The Tiger clutch is a little more difficult to adjust by free-play feel, as the engagement arm is spring loaded (unlike a dirt bike). So, I started the motor, adjusted the cable at the engine to allow for what felt like the right amount of free-play at the lever then moved the arm with my hand to ensure there is a little play before the pressure plate is touched. (The adjustment as noted in the SM doesn't provide much help) It's pretty obvious once you check the arm the first time, as you can feel the pressure plate touch with your hand. After this adjustment, I pulled in the clutch, clicked into gear and slowly let out the clutch lever to feel engagement location. The lever engages a little over half way out (on selector 4 at the lever), which is about right. Each time I adjusted the clutch as I fine tuned, I checked the lever at the engine to make sure I had a little movement before the pressure plate was touched.

    8. I know that I will wear the clutch over time, so I set the clutch adjustment at the lever so I have plenty of room to turn the adjustment in. (adjustment outward is highly unlikely, so I don't leave much outward adjustment)

    Post up if you need additional help. Clutch change should take about 30 minutes the first time as you pay attention to how things are coming apart.
  19. lmychajluk

    lmychajluk Long timer

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    Thanks a bunch, professorkx! I've been watching videos (not specific to the Tiger 800, though) and reviewing the SM, and with your info, feel pretty confident about tackling the job myself (well, my brother, who was an auto body mechanic, might help). I called the closest Triumph dealer today, and though at first they thought they would have to order the gasket and it would take a week, they ended up having one in inventory and I was able to grab it today. The Barnett kit will be in tomorrow, and I'm planning on doing this on Thursday.

    A few things that I've seen / heard that I'm still not clear on. Some of it may be clearer once I see the parts and Barnett's instructions.

    1) Barnett FAQ says soak the plates for 10-15 minutes. One video said 48 hours. What say you? I'm assuming I just need to soak the friction plates...

    2) I was told that to make note of the position of the pressure plate and note which holes each of the bolts comes out of and to put each back in the same hole (because it may be balanced?). Is this important?

    3) Is there a specific 'clock' position for the plates? (I thought I saw this mentioned in a video for changing a GSXR clutch.) As in, is there any type of mark/notch/etc.. on the plates that needs to line up a certain way between the drums and/or with each other, or as long as all the notches on the plates fit between the drums, and the plates go in in the right order, you're good?

    Thanks again! :thumb
  20. CA Stu

    CA Stu Steer with your face! Super Moderator

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    Maybe a little drag with the clutch pulled in? That's all I can think of...

    Edit: You didn't happen to take pics of the old plates and new plates did you? :ear

    Also, after owning my Tiger for a week or so, I think it may be geared for 200mph.
    Maybe losing a tooth on the front would do wonders for low speed tractor action?