Time to grow my moustache, the garage smells like Guzzi.

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by Lucky 7, Aug 16, 2013.

  1. MZRider

    MZRider Neo-Luddite

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    I too prefer the 2mm original style, but the 4mm is actually cheaper.

    2mm: $103.00: http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=432

    4mm: $74.88: http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=1163

    Little difference in the cost of 2mm vs. 4mm clutch plates also.
  2. Lucky 7

    Lucky 7 Been here awhile

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    Thanks a ton guys, this is really helpful info for me.

    My clutch hub seems to be in fine shape, but the 2mm friction plates are out of stock with no foreseeable arrival time. I'm thinking that it's probably easiest for me to just go with 4mm and the new clutch hub. It's fairly affordable anyway.

    Glad to hear that the RAM clutch isn't necessarily worth the cash. I don't need all the upgrade bells and whistles, but I want this to be a quality job. It's nice to know that it isn't a must.

    Also, it seems like my suspicions are confirmed about the big bore kit. I think I'll just stick with the 83mm bore Gilardonis and have the crank balanced for super smooth running.:wink:

    Next up I'll be disassembling the heads and checking valve tolerances. Once that's done, I think I can put in my order to MG Cycle and start putting this thing back together.:clap
  3. MZRider

    MZRider Neo-Luddite

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    Oddometer:
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    Western MD
    MG Cycle may be out of 2mm clutch plates, but do check with Harper's and Moto International. Also Mark @ Moto Guzzi Classics did offer relined clutch plates that worked very well. Check to see if he still has any.
  4. MZRider

    MZRider Neo-Luddite

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    I bought two (so far) that didn't fit, apparently Stucchi didn't make them right. MG Cycle sent me replacements each time, no questions asked.
  5. MZRider

    MZRider Neo-Luddite

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    Oddometer:
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    Oh, and don't be tempted to use Barnett friction plates. The spliny bits are stamped out crap and will wear out a clutch hub in very short order.

    Also, be wary of Sureflex brand clutch plates. Good enough quality, but the friction material they use causes an "on/off" clutch - very grabby with little progression. It does get better with use, but there are better plates. Plus, some of the splined centers are made to fit 2mm or 4mm hubs and don't fit either all that well, causing premature wear. I think they've recently rectified that issue, but I still wouldn't use them.
  6. MZRider

    MZRider Neo-Luddite

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    Had to look in my notes, buried deep on my computer, finally found the answer. The o-rings are "JIS" Japanese Industry Standard, not SAE or Metric, so I doubt they'll be in any o-ring assortment.
  7. Lucky 7

    Lucky 7 Been here awhile

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    I think I'll go with the Stucchi deep splines and just pick up a new clutch hub. Everything I see on the topic is that the 4mm splines work better and last longer on the 5 speeds. Seems like you guys generally agree on it too, so what the hell. Worth a try at least.

    I'll replace the intermediate plate, but I'll need to take a closer look at the friction surfaces on the pressure plate and starter gear before I decide on them. I'm hoping to reuse them, but only if they're nice and smooth. I'll check that out this week while I'm getting everything cleaned up.

    Thanks again for all the advice, it's incredibly helpful.:freaky
  8. Twotaildog

    Twotaildog Old Poop

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    I'm not familiar with the Guzzi's, can the ring gear be flipped over? That's what we used to do with the old American V8's.
  9. Lucky 7

    Lucky 7 Been here awhile

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    Nope, it's a sided affair. The back side has a clutch friction surface on it, and the front has countersinks milled in for the flywheel bolts. Sadly I had that same thought before I knew what was going on with it, but no dice. Oh well.
  10. Lucky 7

    Lucky 7 Been here awhile

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    Back at it! It's been a busy few weeks, but I've managed to get a bit of engine work done here and there. The more I read and work on the engine, the more comfortable I'm getting with it, but I think I'll still be really happy to have it all back together. Although, I'm sure my stomach will be in my throat the first time I start it...:D

    First off, I decided to get all my cast parts cleaned up. Charlie, the Eagle 1 wheel cleaner did a fantastic job, thanks for the tip (and the o-rings:freaky). I was amazed! There was still a good bit of scrubbing involved, but I couldn't believe how well it cleaned and brightened the aluminum. I figured some of those stains were there to stay.

    Lots of reapplications and rinsing:

    <a href="http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/gwoodworth/media/Guzzi%20rebuild/IMG_0477_zpsac396a3d.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/gwoodworth/Guzzi%20rebuild/IMG_0477_zpsac396a3d.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0477_zpsac396a3d.jpg"/></a>



    Getting the inside cleaned out:

    <a href="http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/gwoodworth/media/Guzzi%20rebuild/IMG_0478_zpsc9661bce.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/gwoodworth/Guzzi%20rebuild/IMG_0478_zpsc9661bce.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0478_zpsc9661bce.jpg"/></a>



    Here's the result. Compared to the tranny, it looks damn near new.

    <a href="http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/gwoodworth/media/Guzzi%20rebuild/IMG_0480_zpsbff834a1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/gwoodworth/Guzzi%20rebuild/IMG_0480_zpsbff834a1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0480_zpsbff834a1.jpg"/></a>



    The heads get a good bath as well:

    <a href="http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/gwoodworth/media/Guzzi%20rebuild/IMG_0483_zps2f6b28cf.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/gwoodworth/Guzzi%20rebuild/IMG_0483_zps2f6b28cf.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0483_zps2f6b28cf.jpg"/></a>



    Then it was time to pull the valves. I know there are a few tools for this, but I found success with a pretty lo-fi method. Just a piece of steel with an oversized hole allowing plenty of clearance for the collets and a few clamps. Once the clamps were compressed, a little tap on the steel snapped it loose and I could pull the collets with a magnet. Easy enough.

    <a href="http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/gwoodworth/media/Guzzi%20rebuild/IMG_0482_zpsae99627b.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/gwoodworth/Guzzi%20rebuild/IMG_0482_zpsae99627b.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0482_zpsae99627b.jpg"/></a>



    Then it was time for lots of measuring. Valves are all well within spec and reveal no excessive wear or scoring upon inspection:

    <a href="http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/gwoodworth/media/Guzzi%20rebuild/IMG_0484_zps34656636.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/gwoodworth/Guzzi%20rebuild/IMG_0484_zps34656636.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0484_zps34656636.jpg"/></a>

    <a href="http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/gwoodworth/media/Guzzi%20rebuild/IMG_0487_zpsa4bcd6e4.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/gwoodworth/Guzzi%20rebuild/IMG_0487_zpsa4bcd6e4.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0487_zpsa4bcd6e4.jpg"/></a>

    <a href="http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/gwoodworth/media/Guzzi%20rebuild/IMG_0488_zpsc990a652.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh535/gwoodworth/Guzzi%20rebuild/IMG_0488_zpsc990a652.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0488_zpsc990a652.jpg"/></a>



    The crank and cam all measure well within spec as well. The end bearings measure out well and don't show excessive wear. My one area of uncertainty is the con-rod bearings. They seem in fine shape to the eye, but they allow more lateral play than spec. I need to do more measuring and install them to torque and then make a determination on new bearings. Once they're torqued up, I may find that it's fine.

    Things are starting to look fairly positive on the engine. Aside from the clutch, the inside of it looks and measures out great for such an old engine. I suspect that it's been rebuilt within the last ten years and perhaps not ridden a whole lot. It's looking like new seals and gaskets are going to be about all it needs.

    A question on the heads: do I need to have a port/polish job done? I've read some conflicting things about the process, but that relates more to the polish. At the very least, it seems like a good idea to have the seat surfaces milled for a fresh seal. Any thoughts from the gallery would be welcome.

    At this point, I'm dangerously close to putting in my engine parts order and starting back the other way on this thing. I'll take a second look at my con rod bearings, then it's probably time to pull the trigger. :eek1
  11. Lucky 7

    Lucky 7 Been here awhile

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    Oh yeah, good call. I'll check those and I still need to check the rear cam bearing in the block.

    Is there a good way to measure the valve springs, or is just best to replace them?
  12. Cogswell

    Cogswell Spudly Adventurer

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    Nice job on the clean up of the motor parts. I did my (airhead) heads and jugs in the kitchen sink with warm water. Seemed to open the pores a bit to facilitate the cleaning process.

    I've been enjoying your thread all along, nice work !

    Mike
  13. Lucky 7

    Lucky 7 Been here awhile

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    :lol3

    Well, it sounds like a great organization you're running. Helping the needy valve springs is a truly important cause.

    I finished up with the remaining measurements and I think I'm going to leave things as they are. The valve guides look good, as do the con rod bushings upon reassembly and torque. Clutch, seals, and gaskets and she should be good to go.:clap
  14. pckopp

    pckopp Aged Adventurer

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    Eleven days! :ddog

    Great work, I have a V50 that needs some love.
  15. pckopp

    pckopp Aged Adventurer

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    Nothing to see here. Move along.
  16. Lucky 7

    Lucky 7 Been here awhile

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    Yeah, yeah, you got me. :augieI haven't had a chance to get much done lately, but I think I'll be getting back into it here soon.

    As minor explanation, I just got back from a sort of short notice trip to Hong Kong.:eek1

    It was pretty awesome. Seems like a place that doesn't pop up on the ole' vacation radar that often, but it really is a fantastic city. Aside from the 16 hour Newark to HK leg, it was an amazing trip. Since I don't have any good motorcycle update pics, here's a few HK shots to keep things moving.

    [​IMG]

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    A huge aviary in Hong Kong Park:
    [​IMG]


    Kowloon Walled City. This place has 150 years of convoluted history that makes it hard to explain, but in its previous iteration (circa 1988), this 6.5 acre parcel held 500+ 16-story highrise apartments and over 40,000 residents...the entire area falling outside of any government due to political holdovers from the British lease. Look it up online, it's crazy what it used to be. Now it's a beautiful park.
    [​IMG]


    The craziest cemetery I've ever seen:
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    I think you can see Batman completing his sky-hook extraction mission somewhere in the background...:D
    [​IMG]




    Alright, so that's the quick and dirty on my trip. Now that I'm back, I'll be working toward getting the engine all pulled back together. I finally found a recommended shop for head work, so I'll call them and see if they can clean up my seat surfaces and check for excessive play between the sleeve and valve. If I'm lucky, they'll be able to balance the crank to the Gilardonis as well. Once that's all done, it's time for reassembly. More to come.
  17. Lucky 7

    Lucky 7 Been here awhile

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    Well, I think I'm going to put in my engine parts order and start getting this thing rebuilt. I do have a question that you guys may be able to answer, though.

    I'm planning on an entirely new exhaust, mainly because the head pipes were nearly rusted through. I think the mufflers are salvageable, but I'm just going to sell them and install some slash-backs. Any body know where to get these things?

    [​IMG]


    I'm pretty sure that I'm looking at the MAC Slash Cut exhaust, but none of the sets I've found online seem to have the mounting tab on the muffler. Greg Bender's links to the slash-cut now go to the Whisper Tone, so I'm not sure where to go next.

    If I can find them, does anybody know if these will mate to the stock 37mm OD head pipes that I'll be ordering? That seems like an important thing to know before I put in this order.:D

    If anybody has any ideas or knows more than me (that's dang near all of you), let me know. Thanks!:ear
  18. eldomike

    eldomike Who Cares

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    Kinda look like Bubs....
  19. MZRider

    MZRider Neo-Luddite

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    The MAC Slashbacks will fit onto the 37mm headpipes, but not the 38s unless you expand them. You might need to bend your centerstand deployment tabs down to clear them.

    Mark @ Moto Guzzi Classics has a pair of new MAC Slashbacks on eBay:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTO-GUZZI-..._Accessories&hash=item3384a1e06b#ht_600wt_758
  20. Lucky 7

    Lucky 7 Been here awhile

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    Awesome, thanks! I may just snatch those up while they're available. I double checked the headpipes I'll have coming and they are the 37mm OD, so hopefully it all works like it's meant to be there. I'll pick up some new muffler clamps and I should be good to go.

    The last guy had painted the exhaust system black...but the paint started bubbling and burning when it came up to temp. Real classy. New pipes will be awesome!:clap