Tire Mousse: for dualsporting?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by windquest, Nov 10, 2011.

  1. windquest

    windquest Been here awhile

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    Done some searching but there is not a lot of info on dualsporting with tire mousse inserts. Neduro has posted some positive comments about the mefo mousse, as well as good detail about the michelin bib mousse during his Dakar testing & practice...

    Im looking at using them on a 4-5000km expedition trip on wr250r's in northern canada.
    The Ultimate Canol Thread
    The trip will be mostly be gravel and slow riding, nothing above 70-80mph. Not having to carry tubes or tools to change them would be a huge bonus on this trip.

    Im not looking to discuss tubliss vs tube vs mousse debate, just want solid info on using the mousse in dualsport type riding.

    Has anyone every used mousse in a pirelli MT-43 tire?

    Thanks
    #1
  2. windquest

    windquest Been here awhile

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    bump, has no one ever used a mousse dualsporting??
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  3. subybaja

    subybaja Long timer

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  4. dtp

    dtp Been here awhile

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    He's talking about these...

    http://www.motorcycle-superstore.co...of-Competition-Foam-Tube.aspx?WT.ac=SLIsearch


    FYI... No personal experience though.

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  5. huckleberry

    huckleberry BACK ROAD BOMBER

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    I'm not sure but i don't think they really hold up well for extended use, too many heat cycles not good for them, but again i am not positive of this.
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  6. Luke

    Luke GPoET&P

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    Not quite what you're asking, but....

    I've been using Michelin mousse for the front tire on my trail bike for trail riding/racing in a Michelin S12. It's really nice, but I wouldn't expect it to hold up for your full trip. The 1000km of the destination road, yes, but not the there-and-back. Obviously, that type of tire wouldn't last but I'd be surprised if the foam lasted with any number of tires.

    I haven't done it myself, but have seen the results of using mousse at 75mph on the street: rear tire meltdown/disintegration.


    I really like the MT-43, but would not use it with mousse. It has terrible traction above 15 psi, 10-15 is ok, but not great. Below 10 it's excellent (except in slimy mud). I don't see a mousse with the correct size for the MT-43; it's really tall.
    #6
  7. windquest

    windquest Been here awhile

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    I thought you might be right about the MT-43... I read on Neduro's road to dakar thread that he felt as though he would have no problem doing the TAT on Mefo mousse, maybe I can get him to chime in here...
    #7
  8. marbee40

    marbee40 Some Fear is Good

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    Keep in mind that when folks create something for racing purposes in regards to tires, they generally plan for 250-500 miles maximum. Most tires, when RACED, tend to be shot by then and a tire-change is planned into the route.

    Just my experience, yours may vary!
    #8
  9. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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  10. Maurizio

    Maurizio 2 smoker

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    "Le mousse non sono omologate per utilizzo su strade aperte al pubblico. "

    It means not DOT (or whatever else national traffic regulation departement) approved...

    I'll buy them... :rofl
    #10
  11. olec

    olec Rookie

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    Sure. I use them all the time with no problems. What started out to be an experiment, turned out to be a big success for me. I have been using mousse for years in the smaller bikes, so I know most things about them. But when I got my KTM690, I had some questions about sustained high speeds and also the rim was wider than what they use on the rally bikes. So, I got hold on an used mousse which came from Pål Anders Ullevålseter he had been using on one of the stages when he took the 2nd place in the 2010 Dakar. Remember, it's the rally mousse and not the usual ones for MX / Enduro bikes. When mounted, my rear looked like a trials tire and the grip is unreal. In fact it's too good because it hooks too much on the gravel turns and I can't let go of the rear I am used too. Just like a trials tire. So I had to change the riding style slightly. Ok, so how does it wear? As I was given this mousse for free, I just gave it some hard time. Sustained speeds more than 80mph making the tire extremely hot. Lots of mixed riding and I didn't give it some thoughts at all. So when it was time for a tire change, I expected to find it to be damaged in some way. But no! It looked exactly when I installed it in first place. Ok, so the second tire went on. It has been this now since May, and I'm on my fifth rear with the same mousse. I just finished a bigger Enduro race in Sweden with the 690, and the mousse was in there of course. I had extremely good traction on the slick rocks, so it went pretty good.

    Remember, it's the rally edition. I don't remember exactly, but maybe the model is Micheling BIb mousse M02. Always Michelins. I have tried some other brands earlier, but none in the near of how the Mich works. I haven't tried Mefo's. Maybe they are good enough. What I like to try now, is that teknomousse made in Italy, but I have emailed them with no success and there are one dealers for them up here. Any kind Italian helping hand in here?

    For the front I am using also a Bib mousse. ALWAYS!

    So, earlier I was scared about the rumours that it was going to melt / dissolve or something, so I stayed away. But after trying it in dual sporting, I am very positive and also a bit surprised how well it works and lasts. It seems that I can have one for the whole year, and then the cost is not a factor at all. I'd say you should just go for it.
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  12. alphajory

    alphajory Been here awhile

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    we are using the bib mousse for the baja 1000 and are running mousse in most of the bikes during preride but most of the riding is off road and very little on highway. the mousse stand up well but do get a bit softer over time. there are 2 things that we have found that are important to make the mousse last in the tires. make sure you use the lube that comes with the mousse and work it into the mousse as the directions tell you. secondly make sure the inner carcus of the tire you are going to use the mousse in is smooth. it you compare a Michelin to some others you will see a difference. it seem the rougher the inside of the tire the more heat build up and this shortens the life of the mousse.
    #12
  13. Jan from Finland

    Jan from Finland Registered

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    No personal experience, but Michelin's disclaimer is:

    "**Note: Specifically designed for off-road competition use for speeds up to 80 mph (130 km/h). Above this speed, heat build-up can lead to rapid destruction of the Bib Mousse, resulting in serious injury to the rider. Under no circumstances should Bib Mousse be fitted to motorcycles for on-road use. Because Bib Mousse is shaped for a perfect fit inside these Michelin tires, use of Bib Mousse with other brands of tires can lead to handling instability and possible destruction of Bib Mousse"
    #13
  14. DaveRMS

    DaveRMS Long timer

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    I use mousse, almost exclusively.

    I have recently switched to Mefo mousses, because we (MX1WEST) are now importing them. Previously I had used Michelin. The Mefo seem to hold up better, and are available in more sizes. I had good luck running them in Maxxis Desert IT's, which are my favorite tire for my KTM 525 rally bike.

    On one set of mousse I have logged a 3 day rally school (about 6-700 miles) plus the 1000 miles Kings of the West non-event this year. Mostly high-speed two-track. When I removed the tires, the mousses were still in good shape, so back in they went for another (3rd) set of tires. Just added more lube with each tire change. Also, running rim locks to prevent slipping (heat).

    Dave
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  15. Renazco

    Renazco Formerly AKA Boejangles

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    On higher speed tarmac they will increase in temperature causing below picture to happen. I've seen them disintegrate causing the tire to break bead.
    This particular one was pulled off a D908 with 60% life left on the tire, it was all dirt mileage.

    [​IMG]
    #15
  16. windquest

    windquest Been here awhile

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    Thanks for all the replies! I am glad to see all this information out there.... It seems like the durability of a mousse is heavily tied to proper installation with lots of lube and keeping speeds under 80mph. Of the one pictured from the D908 tire, it doesn't appear as though there is any lube on it, or was it wiped off?

    Keep the details coming, thanks!:clap
    #16
  17. MKJ

    MKJ Married w/ Children

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    I've got friends that ride ALOT in Baja and they use Tubliss. They love them. They also run the Bridgestone ED78 six ply tires. When they get flat, they just use plugs. They say the 4 ply tires don't hold plugs real well. I'm going this route myself.

    http://tubliss.com/
    #17
  18. windquest

    windquest Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the idea but I'd like to avoid anything that has a tube(i hear they have an inner bladder) in it due to the remoteness of the trip(up to 500km from any soul on earth). Im looking at the mousse option because it would eliminate the need to carry spare tubes, patch kits, tire tools etc... other wise I think we'll stick to normal tubes.
    #18
  19. neduro

    neduro Addict Super Moderator

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    IMO, the key is a proper fitting mousse, and keeping it very well lubed (and only with the correct silicon lubricant). The issue is that as the tire flexes, and rubs against the mousse, it creates heat (see James' pic!). Lube lessens this effect, as does a correct fit.

    With those conditions met, you can get a lot of trouble free mileage from a mousse. A few considerations:

    - Michelin Mousses don't fit very well in non Michelin tires. The profile and internal size of a Michelin is quite different to others (Bridgestone/ Dunlop).

    A solution to this is the new Mefo Mousse from MX1West. They come in appropriate sizes for non Michelin tires and seem to have a nicer profile as well. I've also found them to be much more durable than even the latest M16 Michelin.

    For DS use on the front, I'd get the 21-Big, that's what I'm running in Dakar. The rear will of course depend on the width of your rim as well as what tire you choose.

    - As the mousse is used, it shrinks somewhat. There are a few solutions to deal with this.

    First, you can go to a smaller profile tire. My favorite front, the Bridgestone M403, comes in both an 80 and 90 width. I prefer the 90, but order a few 80s so that I can get one last tire out of a mousse.

    Second, you can wrap the mousse in an old tube- cut around the inside, set the mousse inside, and install. Lube everything, it's a bit of a mess, but you'll get another tire.

    Finally, you can cut extra sections of an old mousse and just shove them in. So, instead of 21", you can put in 26" of mousse, if that makes sense. By the time the mousse is this shagged, you'll know how it should feel and be able to judge accordingly.

    I ride them pretty much exclusively on my small bikes, it's great to be able to charge stuff without concern of a flat, they protect the rims much better than a tube since the air can't squish out of the way, and I can leave my tire tools at home. I've done a lot of exploring that includes both trail and 70-80mph dual sporting on them and have found them very reliable... but I lube them religiously and they are rarely installed in a single tire for longer than a few weeks.
    #19
  20. Renazco

    Renazco Formerly AKA Boejangles

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    Like this ? :lol3


    [​IMG]
    #20