Tire Mousse: for dualsporting?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by windquest, Nov 10, 2011.

  1. neduro

    neduro Addict Super Moderator

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    I did this for a long time.

    Most of my flats were pinch flats up front from hitting an edge too hard. These are now a thing of the past. Eventually, I wanted to leave tire tools at home, and went to a rear mousse... but just the front is a good way to start.
    #61
  2. Arrowsmith

    Arrowsmith n00b

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    Thank you! That's perfect.:nod

    Arrowsmith
    #62
  3. ramz

    ramz Professional Trail Rider

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    In my earlier post, I talked about trying the Mefo Mousse:

    "I just ordered 2 MOM21s for the fronts on my CRF230F and WR250R. Working on the correct sizes for the rear Pirelli MT43 and IRC 4.00-18 TR11 trials tires."

    I installed a front MOM21 and an FTD (Flat Tire Defender) in the rear of my WR250R and did a ride in southern NM in November last. I was happy with the results, and plan to continue testing this spring. I'll start a web page (of course) and show all the results.

    On my CRF230F, I installed a front MOM21 and just today finished installing a MOM18-2 in the rear. It was dee-fee-cult. After about two hours of fighting that 18" donut, I sat down and thought about what I needed to do to get the job done. I needed 4 hands/arms and there was no way I was getting my wife to help. So here's what I came up with:

    [​IMG]

    Do not laugh. With this setup, it was easy-peasy - took 10 minutes with very little effort. I spent most of the time cutting the plumbers tape and screwing in the screws. The final version will have screw hooks for the tire iron handles - insert tire iron under edge of tire, pivot, lock. Easy on and easy off. The board will fold against the wall for easy storage.

    [​IMG]

    I'll have a full report on my web page soon...

    PS Don't be critizing my lack of geometric skills - it was all done by eye and I was tired, so the tire irons fell where they may.

    Besides, I'll be riding all day Monday and Tuesday, testing , testing, testing. Someone has to do it.


    Note to Neduro - I didn't have to force the opposite side of the tire down into the center of the rim - brute force carried the day. With this setup, there is actually very little brute force needed.
    #63
  4. neduro

    neduro Addict Super Moderator

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    I love it! That's solving the problem in a very logical way...

    FWIW, the trick I've found is to get the bead stretched tight, without worrying about getting the opposite side down in the dish. You'll be about 3/4 of the way on when it's no longer possible to proceed. At that point, and not before then, use a tire iron opposite, and push the bead down, because of the tension from the far side it will be well motivated to go down in and stay down in.

    Hope that makes sense, but your arrangement looks perfectly useable to me!

    How does it work in a trials tire? Same as air? Never played with that.
    #64
  5. cyborg

    cyborg Potius Sero Quam Numquam

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    Since this is Tire Mousse: for dualsporting thread, I noticed on the FTD site:

    "**Off-Road Flat Tire Defender inserts are NOT designed or recommended for use in Motorcycle Street, motorcycle dual sport and motorcycle Adventure applications. Refer to Tire Technology LLC Important Safety Information for more details."

    The Mefo mousses look good. Nice job solving the install problem.
    #65
  6. NordieBoy

    NordieBoy Armature speller

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    #66
  7. oldxr

    oldxr Long timer

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    On the thumpertalk website I have read that the baja racers run a mousse front and uhd tube in the rear.Most smaller bikes (up to 650cc) dont carry alot of weight on the front wheel.The only flat I have had in baja was a front pinch flat from hitting those baby head rocks burried in a loose sand road .this set up would allow for only haviing to carry a rear tube.If i knew that I was never going to be on a paved at speed I would run a rear mousse.But my xr650r can run 70mph easy on pavement so I think i would run front mousse only on baja trip.
    #67
  8. ramz

    ramz Professional Trail Rider

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    The accepted definition of dual sport riding is mixed paved and dirt, so under that definition, the FTD wouldn't qualify. But my actual DS riding consists primarily of dirt roads/routes with maybe 2-3% paved transition sections. That's why I'm using the FTD inserts. Also, Mefo Mousse have not been sized for trials and DOT-trials-like (MT43) tires, so I used the FTD inserts based on recommendations of riders who use them in enduro competition (mostly dirt).

    I am not trying to redefine any type of riding or use; my research is aimed at testing mousse and mousse-like inserts for my own use. I will document all of it on a web page of my creation. My posting here was only concerning what I did to facilitate mounting of a Mefo Mousse. Thanks for your comments; I'll be moving on now.
    #68
  9. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

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    Please post a link when you start this page. I'm pretty interested in it and I bet Raul Duke is too (he got, I think, 4 flats on the TuBliss system last summer and they are a real bitch to repair/replace on the trail)

    [​IMG]

    That picture is kind of funny... just so people know, there are tire changers designed for mousses. The one in the link below is built by a welder I know in Divide and sold by a guy here in Woodland Park, so you could probably cut down on the shipping charges if you wanted to pick it up.

    http://www.offroadchampions.com/html/off_road_champions.html
    #69
  10. GurgaonTrails

    GurgaonTrails Adventurer

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    Hello. Sorry about bringing this one up again.....

    I have an XR400 and ride in a thorny area and am sick of flats. Almost committed to buying the Michelin Bib Mousse and I think it should work well. Most rides end up being under 100kms.

    But I have a long tour coming up. Will include about 1000kms on roads (pavement) and 1000kms on broken mountain roads and offroad/gravel.

    If I run the roads at speeds upto only 80 km/h (50mph) for 2-3 hours at a stretch, would this screw up the mousse?
    The reason I have to ask, despite reading the thread, is that there's talk of DS/Dual Sport rides etc, but just want to be sure about "roads" or "pavement".

    Carrying spare tubes is not a problem, but would hate to throw away the mousse tube on the ride if it can be expected to fail.
    #70
  11. NordieBoy

    NordieBoy Armature speller

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    With the Michilin mousse, it seems you're limited to specific Michilin tyres.
    The Mefo mousse works with more tyres and seems more robust.
    See Neduro's tyre changing thread for details.
    #71
  12. cyborg

    cyborg Potius Sero Quam Numquam

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    I imagine that tire changer is modeled similar to a little beefier design I've seen on YouTube

    <iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Mnhg-VEP69U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Another possible option for $70 less here
    #72
  13. leftystrat62

    leftystrat62 Adventurer

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    Big question on running the Mousse on the highway. I'd like to use the mouse for my TAT trip but I will be doing 950 mi. of highway riding from R.I. to TN before I get off the highway to a slower pace. I'll be leaving mid Aug. so the temps will be in mid 80's- mid 90's on the highway for 3 days. I plan to keep my speed at 65 mph,but will the mouse hold up alright on my WR250R?
    Also, how many miles can you usually get from the mousse? Should I run a higher pressure on the highway-like 22 lbs,then maybe 14 off road?
    #73
  14. oldxr

    oldxr Long timer

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    Idea for tire changer-make 1 that plugs into the frame hitch reciever on back of the truck.That would get it off of the ground and make it so it wont move.
    #74
  15. Yamezz

    Yamezz Suffers from MBS

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    You may have misunderstood what a mousse is. A mousse is not adjustable for pressure on the fly. You can add or remove sections at the installation stage to simulate different pressures, but it's not something you can quickly do when you get off the bitumen.

    I'm late to the party, but I'd thought I throw in my experience with mousses:


    • I have used predominantly Michelin brand over the last 5 years, and more recently the Linswood/WinX brand. I have 8 bikes currently running mousses.
    • Once the supplied lube has run out, I use silicone lube from Martin Chemicals, and I use a fair bit of it.
    • I re-lube when changing tyres, which is often only every 3 months.
    • I don't think saying Michelin mousses are incompatible with other brands of tyres is true. I think Michelin just state that on their box to line their own pockets. It think what you really need to keep in mind is that Michelin have a different sizing system to most, so their 110/100 is not the same as another's 110/100. It just means you may need to use a 140 size Michelin mousse in a 120 size Kenda tyre for example.
    • My experience has been that the only measurement of mousse longevity that makes any sense is time. People always ask how many kilometres will I get, or how many tyres will I get out of a mousse. Short of catastrophic failure like shown in the picture earlier in the thread, it's a gradual shrinking of the mousse that determines its lifespan. I seem to get a year out of a front (I find that after 15 months I definitely need to do something to bolster the 'pressure' back up). I probably get 18 months to 2 years out of a rear, but this is very hard to estimate due to using different rear tyres and their associated differences in internal volume. When a rear mousse is too soft for one tyre, it gets moved on to the next smallest tyre as explained below.
    • Whilst I have no data to back this up, my feeling is that catastrophic failures are due to a combination of two things: insufficient lubricant (or 'spotty' distribution of that lubricant) and manufacturing faults. I've been trailriding, racing and adventure touring with mouses for 5 years now and have never had a catastrophic failure. Looking at pictures such as that posted above, most failure points seem to be adequately lubed, so why did one section of a mousse fail, yet the adjacent section is fine? My guess is inconsistency in the mousse structure when it was made. I'd like to hear from more people with first hand experience of catastrophic failures. Obviously my experience doesn't extend to high-speed Dakar stages, so I can only comment from a trailriding, enduro racing and adventure riding perspective.
    • I think heat generation is influenced by the fit of the mousse to the tyre. A tight fit (and therefore higher simulated pressure) generates less heat than a soft fit due to less tyre flex than the softer set-up.
    • As mousses age they shrink. There are several options to deal with this. One is to use a smaller profiled tyre; another is to sacrifice an old mousse, cut it into sections and add these sections in to bump the 'pressure' back up. I have also had success with lining tyres with strips of those (usually) blue foam camping mats, of course with liberal lube applied. I have recently done a 2,100km ADV trip with such a set-up in the front tyre, though I'd be a little hesitant to try it on the rear. I race enduros on the camp mat set-up in the rear though. No problems yet. The last way to deal with shrinking mousses is to put them into smaller bikes. Got kids? I have a shrunken 21 inch mousse doing duty in the 19 inch front tyre of a TTR125. It's been in there 5 years now (was a hand-me-down from another racer). I have never thrown out a mousse. One front has been sacrificed to bolster others, but all my rears are still entire. I just need to be mindful of tyre sizes when using them, and add a camp mat layer if necessary. I've also successfully used older mousses when riding sand dunes, which would be too soft and squirmy for hard packed terrain.
    • I don't use rim locks. I don't believe not using rim locks adds to the heat generation when riding. There's a huge difference between a little bit of slipping on the rim under power and spinning inside the tyre. If your rear tyre is slipping so much it's creating heat, you've got bigger problems to deal with.
    #75
  16. Motorfiets

    Motorfiets Long timer

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    reviving and old thread.... any new ideas on running a M02 Mousse in a MT43?
    #76
  17. Mike_MRS

    Mike_MRS Been here awhile

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    Better a Maxxis IT rear to be honest. The size is stated on the wall as 120, but they are closer to a 140. The M02 is a perfect fit, we ran 4 bikes all last year including 8 weekend rallies and international event (2000 k) on M02 rear, M16 front, IT rear (not desert, standard) and Metzeler 6 days extreme front.

    We used one set of mousses only. I changed mine end of November 13 and replaced with new - I still have the old ones and they are running in an enduro bike with no problems. So whilst the initial cost is expensive, they are damn good value I think.

    Might help others to know that an M02 in addition to the Michelin tyres will fit well in the following:

    Maxxis IT (120
    Pirelli Scorpion XC (mid hard) 140
    Metzeler 6 days 140
    Pirelli Scorpion Rally 140 (an awesome combination for longevity)
    #77
  18. pinevalley

    pinevalley Been here awhile

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    FYI -

    I just completed a long journey (Heart of the West with a little tour of Idaho and the CDR tossed in) - 4260 miles. Michelin Desert front and rear. Michelin bib in the front. Mefo in the rear. The bike was a Husaberg 570.

    I kept the speed under 60 on the Tarmac. I ride fairly conservatively. The tires (and mousses) made the journey However, the tires are toast.

    I would call the a dual sporting success for the bib mousse.

    pinevalley.
    #78
  19. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    lots of great info
    #79
  20. Jking

    Jking It's just a bike

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    Ok so I have had the bibs in for 780 miles so far. I have the stock front tire and a MT43 on the rear of my KTM350. I ride 50/50 dirt street, I ride form my house to the trails and back. I keep my speeds under 50 MPH. A few things to know about these things, I lube them every 150-ish miles, I bought a tub of tire lube from the local auto parts store. I can pull the tires off and lube them, have them back on in less than 30 minutes. For me I will not go back to tubes for my 350 DS bike. Last weekend I did a tire lube and saw that I had a stick inside of the tire.

    This stick was inside the tire moving around
    [​IMG]

    Here is the 1'' hole the stick put in the tire.
    [​IMG]

    The damage it did to the Bib was very little. I lubed up the bibs again and just finished another 150 mile ride, doing another 150 mile ride on Sunday. I'm in CA and right now its over 100 degrees. I have had no issues with the melting of the bibs.

    Knowing that when you are out on the trail and you DO NOT have to worry about getting a flat is worth so much for me.

    Ok now for the way they handle. If you ride like the average Joe and chug along these are a no brian-er. But, If you are really good rider and go fast, they don't roll over rocks and roots, they move side to side when hitting things. Very unpredictable. Even though they have the low pressure feel, they have a dead feel when hitting obstacles. I would rather ride with Nutech Tubless, but like I said before, the security of having bibs is worth the trade off.
    #80