Today Was a Sad Day

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by cabanza, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. Tall Man

    Tall Man Priest, Temple of Syrinx

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    The V-Strom is a street bike, not an ADV machine. Don't be fooled by the off-road styling elements. Yes, they're taken off the tarmac by riders with varying degrees of competency. I've seen the damage to oil coolers, those low header pipes, cast wheels, etc. when reality intrudes and the talent (such as it is) runs dry. Raising all that weight after the bike goes horizontal can be a treat to watch, too.

    A guy with chops can make the bike work, but it will be work. So many better and lighter choices are available.

    Former DL1000 owner here. Happy as pie with my [proper] dual sport, and my latest sport-tourer. Used within their design briefs, they are well-nigh perfect.
    #61
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  2. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Long timer

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    Nope. Real median income in the U.S. hit an all-time high in 2016, and poverty declined.

    It's bizarre to me how determined people are to believe that times are tough. They're just not. I think your comment about the number of things competing for discretionary dollars is closer to the truth... it's not that people can't afford motorcycles. It's that some people don't want to afford motorcycles.
    #62
  3. William Wolfen

    William Wolfen Dirt Seeker

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    I had one too and totally agree with that assessment. There's worse bikes on groomed gravel, but it's not for anything weirder than that.

    I'd be interested to see if that's actually the case when adjusted for inflation. I may be making more dollars than before, but they sure seemed to go a lot further before. I'm not saying times are terrible, but a lot of good paying middle management type jobs are gone forever. Maybe that helps the median by raising pay at the bottom, but it hurts the middle class and they're usually the ones with enough of that discretionary income to buy a two wheeled toy.

    One that note, I'd love to see motorcycles become mainstream transportation. Sure would help with traffic.
    #63
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  4. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Long timer

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    Between 2015 and 2016, median income rose 3.2%. Inflation in the U.S. is running around 2.1%.

    When this was being debated on another thread, I actually decided to see what had happened to the price of motorcycles over the decades when adjusted for inflation. I was greatly amused to find that the prices of a 1970 Honda CB300 and a 2017 Honda CB300F were almost identical, about $20 apart (with the current bike being, obviously, FAR more beginner-friendly). Sorry, no easy answer here.
    #64
  5. High Country Herb

    High Country Herb Adventure Connoiseur

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    I wonder if it has anything to do with credit scores and the ability to get a loan. How many pay cash? Has the number of cash buyers remained constant, and the number of credit buyers gone down?
    #65
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  6. High Country Herb

    High Country Herb Adventure Connoiseur

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    My closest Aprilia dealer is about 80 miles away. Luckily I haven't needed any service. They are pretty diversified with Moto Guzzi, Triumph, Can-Am, and Vespa. There are always customers there, and the service department looks busy. Still, you never know what could happen.
    #66
  7. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

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    See below. Very true. You SHOULD bitch about your cell phone cost, clothes and definitely any jewelry. Japanese mark up at MSRP not including any other costs is 17% and a usual 3% hold back. That has been that way for decades. It ain't a gold mine. Harley, I understand, is 25%. Clothing could be 50% off and still make money. A 70% jewelry sale still is profitable.

    Yep, we had a guy think we had 100% mark up from wholesale.

    Side by sides allow a cold one while driving with a cooler in the back. Not so easy on a bike. :lol3 That last part is the worst. My friend wasn't allowed charge mileage for his bike, but fine if he drove his Z28.

    Don't forget the key word - median. The upper 2% had huge gain in income, that raises that median - a lot. It isn't just the average person, it includes Trump, Buffet, Boomberg, Zuckerberg, and the rest.
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  8. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Long timer

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    I think folks have to remember that the 'issue' is a decline in new bike sales. As far as I can tell, registrations have been slowly climbing, and the smoking gun would seem to be the glut of new bikes that were sold ten years ago.
    #68
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  9. BetterLateThanNever

    BetterLateThanNever Long timer

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    No, actually it raises the average, not the median. The median is a better indicator of general economic improvement, for exactly the reasons you say.

    What's interesting about that top 2% is that it's not corporate CEOs and entrepreneurs dragging that number up. I saw some data recently that showed it's actually doctors, lawyers and bankers whose pay is skewing income distribution. Gotta be good for Harley and GS sales ;)
    #69
  10. PDTX

    PDTX Been here awhile

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    I can give you a sample size of 1. My plan was to get my wife a genuine buddy this year. Even debated doing it this week for Valentine's day. I have the money for it, but am not going to spend it right now. It just doesn't make sense. We finally got our roof fixed last week. No longer having a 12 foot hole in my house is a good feeling. Now to fix the sheetrock and get new flooring...
    #70
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  11. Paebr332

    Paebr332 Good news everyone!

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    Median means the exact middle of the distribution range, not the mathematical average (that is the mean). If someone went from earning $1 more than the median to earning $1 billion more, the median would not move by one penny. 50% percent of the population would still make less than the median, 50% would make more.

    When the median income rises the overall income level has shifted higher, and the top 50% of incomer earners all are making more money. Last year the median household income in the US hit an all time inflation-adjusted high of over $59,000 per year. BTW, that's about $15,000 per year more than the median income in Japan, just for one example.

    The OECD has an interesting measure they call average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita. It's basically a measure of income in relation to cost of living. The US averages is over $44,000 per year. Germany's is under $34k, Japan at less than $28k, Britain a bit over $28k, and even countries like Switzerland ($36k), Denmark ($29k) and France ($31k) that many consider quite rich are all well below the US.
    #71
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  12. tlub

    tlub Long timer

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    I was at the Chicago IMS last weekend. I had also attended the Minneapolis version, but had a mission for this one- My niece (a Millennial) is learning to ride and I want to be a bit more knowledgeable about what is out there, as I anticipate helping her buy a bike. At the Chicago show, I was truly impressed with both the number of entire families there, trying on bikes (including Mom on the front and kids on the back); the number of scooters that were being sat upon; the number of Millennials trying on bikes (guys and gals); and last but not least, how many women riders were there, going around in groups, trying on bikes. It was different (at least in my impression) from the Minneapolis show in all these regards.
    I have no idea why Chicago was different than Minneapolis in these regards, but I found it remarkable. Especially since no one would argue Illinois is better riding country, or that Chicago is a great city for motorcycles. But there it was.
    #72
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  13. SilentRay

    SilentRay Rebuilt

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    Back in September a friend of mine and I went into one of the biggest motorsports dealers in GA located in Marietta, GA. Weather was beautiful and was a Saturday afternoon . There was only one other person browsing and about 8 sales guys taking their turns trying to sell us something. They had half the showroom floor filled with 4 wheelers and side by sides ! Most of the bikes were cruisers and sport bikes. No Africa Twins, no Klr's, no Wr's .

    :hmmmmm:loco:norton
    #73
  14. SilentRay

    SilentRay Rebuilt

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    Like others have said, why by a new bike when there's plenty of low mileage, well maintained used ones f/s for half the price. A lot of us don't want to spend $10 - 20k on a new bike, plus taxes/advelorem, plus $$$for ins coverage.

    I for one would rather spend some of that money on gas, tires, and farkles and ride more.
    #74
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  15. 18415

    18415 Adventurer

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    I dunno. I've been riding motorcycles for 25 years. I have always noticed the sport go up and down in popularity. I think right now it is in a decline. I'm sure within the next few years, it will be back up. I think a majority of the Millennial generation is not big on riding. (Or working for what you have, and earning things or appreciating what you do have...) But i'm sure the next generation will be bigger on the sport. I wouldn't stress about it.
    #75
  16. shoeb

    shoeb Long timer

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    LOL man, we didn't invent the 'everything-on-finance culture', we just live in it!
    #76
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  17. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

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    Like BLTN said, it still goes up. The guy in the labor market goes from $14,000/yr to $16,000/yr, not enough to get any kind of insurance for a family, while those others go from $1.5 to 2.0 million and can afford any operation needed. See how that still gets drug upward more by the big bucks. Realize many of those people with that high income may get a bigger break from taxes than that low laborer makes in a year. Nice. I believe Trump will save more than my wife and I make in a year and we're low middle class income. Yep, workin' for the average joe... :nah
    #77
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  18. Tall Man

    Tall Man Priest, Temple of Syrinx

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    I've bagged on Millennials for a few of their outlier behaviors, but one thing that they're not is lazy. Not in my estimation, anyway. Some friends of ours, with young families, are part of that generation. They're chasing the white picket fence vision of American life with real determination and sweat. Good for them.
    #78
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  19. JB2

    JB2 Dirt Of The Earth

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    In response to the OP; I watched the Mecum Auction in Las Vegas a few weeks ago. Bikes from the MoCo were rolling across the block at 1/2 price and they were nice bikes... if that is the kind of bike you were shopping for. I own multiple bikes and have been searching for that new "one". The bike in my stable that I would label as my primary bike. My riding preferences have turned more to off-road/dual-sport and smaller caliber, 450 to 650cc. I've considered scramblers too, even in a 900cc or liter bike. The Triumph is the only bike the even begins to tug at my wallet until I read that all Triumph models are throttle-by-wire and have an "immobilizer" built in. I am not a fan of gadget electronics. I don't want the option to have someone from somewhere else being able to shut down my bike remotely. Nor do I want the same goofy throttle feed on my bike that I put up with in my F150. ABS, traction control are bad enough but what's next? Alexia? The point is I am looking for a new bike but there is nothing out there that trips my trigger. Maybe I am showing my age but I have this sweet little CB550F I am restoring and to me it's a better option than anything out there. As far-fetched as it sounds the Enfield with a carb, a chain and the constant need for valve adjustments is far more appealing to me anything in this new crop of electron-gadget-cycles. In last year or so I have heard many riders complaining about the same issue. I can accept the market is moving away from me but I'm not the only one ready to buy with nothing that appeals to us. Might be time to go vintage all the way.
    #79
  20. Tall Man

    Tall Man Priest, Temple of Syrinx

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    The OnStar feature on a friend's new Suburban accommodated remote unlocking of his doors when he misplaced his key fob. I was concurrently impressed and a bit taken aback by that particular "service".

    With the foregoing in mind, is it indeed that degree of matching technology that is now on some new Triumphs: the ability to remotely control some function(s) of the motorcycle?
    #80
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