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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by btcn, Jul 24, 2012.
Dont you guys get these?
No. We don't get a lot of the good stuff.
Instead, we get stuff like this:
At least it's a torque monster
Well, still no torque monster bike or even considerably torquey bike [still riding the 85 Shadow 700], but I got me a Diesel truck a couple months ago!
I bought a 2000 Ram 3500 Dually 4X4 with the Cummins 5.9! I have had a 94 F250 XLT 4X4 with the longbed and extended cab for awhile. It has the thirsty as hell 460 big block though. While its a very torquey engine, 5-8 MPG gets old VERY quick. Its wierd with that truck. Gets about 8 no matter what. City, highway, hard driving, easy driving, towing, not towing, hills, no hills, wind no, wind. Not good. Only gets worse when its 1 mile drives. Don't ask me about that. Try a 3 MPG. When gas is $3.35 its no fun. When gas is $4.50+, forget about it.
As if it's milage wasn't bad enough, it wasn't that reliable.
For my work, it an alright truck performance wise. Had pretty good torque [395 ft/lbs @2,200 RPM]. The torque was good but the RPMs are too high, I wanted the torque below 2K to increase. And it had a short 4th OD gear. Ran like 2,400 RPM @68-70 MPH. But otherwise it was an alright truck. Towed pretty good.
But wow. The Ram is awesome! Despite being a dually, it rides way smoother. But torque wise no comparsion. Its not just more torque, its at lower RPMs. Actually not a lot more. The F250 had 395 ft/lbs, the ram auto stock is only 420 but its got a chip I think and MSRB exhaust and K & N, so its at about 460-470 ft/lbs, or with a chip will pull about 480 to 500 ft/lbs, and its @1600 RPM, and has close to max as low as 1,100 RPM. You really notice the difference. When that turbo kicks in it has a LOT of torque.
Its NOT that fast. But it has that pin you back in the seat feel. Just raw power. Not high RPM power [fast 0-60, top speed], just raw power. You feel the torque off idle. Love that feel! It tows 30,000 pounds of round bales like nothing! On the highway it only runs at about 1750 RPM at 70-75 MPH! I love how the redlines only 3,300 RPM! No need to rev! Even in neutral it revs pretty slowly to get there! Its all about towing power!
And as if thats not good enough, I average a real world 19-22 MPG on the highway empty at 65 MPH! Sweet! City is alright, much better than the 460, around 12-13 MPG empty. Pretty damn good if you ask me for a nearly 8,000 pound 1 ton truck! Towing it'll go down to 15 highway sometimes. With a super heavy load can go down to 11-12 though. But still pretty good. I can't complain!
Just really wishing we got some nice diesel production bikes here. Damn EPA bullshit asshole emmisions.
sounds like u have some kind of an rpm fetish
If it has to be a vtwin, how about a SV1000. Only slightly less HP/torque than a 1200/1250 Bandit but lighter, shorter and easier steering, and no 5k rpm limit like the HD's or workalikes- take it right on up. I test rode one a last fall, felt great- like a feather with rocket engine attached. I prefer the I4 characteristics but it was great fun to ride.
Well I am pretty pecular about RPMs. I just don't like my engine revving higher than it needs to. For example, Harley's stock gearing on the 6 speeds is approved by me. Its not like rediclously tall gearing. Actually, its pretty short gearing, 6th gear will have you turning as high as 2,800 RPM @ 70-75 MPH. But the engine loves that range. Many say H-Ds sweet spot if 3K RPM. Around there it runs the coolest, and its the least stressed. Its got all the torque and most HP there.
But my 85 Shadow 700. Its got pretty good torque. But when the wind hits you have to run 4th or 5th gear. It WILL pull 6th, but its like WOT, and 4th and 5th its more comfortable [less throttle imput required]. But I don't like the sound, and the vibration. The MPG goes down the drain too in these conditions often.
Now, if you just wanna hop on and fly down the highway or your a gear jammer, a H-D ain't for you.
But what I'm getting at is I hate how we can't get diesels, in addition to the regular lineup. I mean the possibility to run bio diesel and other renewable resources is also appealing to me. I hear IDIs work great for this [in direct injection, like on the late 80s to mid 90s Ford 6.9 and 7.3, the non powerstroke non turbo naturally aspirited engines, has pre combustion chambers]. I am not a huge fan of Fords any longer, but I do believe the 7.3 IDI was a pretty good engine. It had reasonable numbers, but it was slow. But relibility wise it was better than a stock 6.0 for sure, with all that emmisions shit.
Diesels don't burn that dirty, espically on things like vegtable oil. They get MUCH better MPG numbers. Unless you drive in the city a lot, or your a librael, you'd be foolish to get a priest over a small diesel like a Jetta TDI. Better yet wait till the new diesel hybrids Volkswagon was talking about! I bet it'll do better than 70 MPG! The hybrids mainly shine in the city.
But for motorcycles. Yes a lot of people are rich and don't give a damn about riding fuel costs. I do. I actually save no gas riding. I ride SO much, just cruising around, I use more gas than I would without it! My shadow gets a respectable 55-60 MPG or so. But if it was a diesel 700 cc I could expect close to 100 MPG. Instead of the SHITTY ass 150 mile range on the puny 3 gallon tank, I would get about 290 miles on that same tank for $8! That would be quite an improvement.
The bike would be slower, but have a lot of torque. For sportbikers, gear jammers, adrenaline lovers, a diesel bike would be useless. But for cruiser riders it'd be nice.
Those are nice, but not really for me. I need long range comfort. Really looking into a touring bike. H-Ds have a decent limit of 6,000 RPM, but the power flattens out long before you get there. The Yamaha Roadstars have a diesel like limit of 4,500 RPM or something like that. I am shooting for an Evo H-D. Those are pretty good motors, the best from H-D pretty much. The newer twin cams are also good though, and have a better dyno.
does it come with a colour matched puke bag?
Talk to Jeff at www.Procycle.us about rustling up a DR900 with a cam, a big-valve head, and a pumper carb for you. Gear it to 17/41. You may not even ever use 5th gear after that. The bike weighs less than 400lb, so 50+WHP and 50+lb-ft. means wheelies are likely in the first 6 gears...if the clutch holds and you can miracle a 6th gear. Throw a Safari 7.9 tank on it and expand it to 10gal. Your range could be over 450 miles.
I ain't the only one who doesn't live the bike to rev at 8K to cruise at 60 MPH?
Its not that I don't like ANY motor to rev, its just the big inch motors. I wouldn't want a dirtbike that can't rev! I love going thru the gears on my 100 and 250! Its just cruising on the highway I like to hear a big inch motor barley spining, sounds cool.
And I like diesels not just for this but the amazing MPGs.
That sounds pretty cool, I like those adventure type bikes. Do want a dual sport of some sort eventually. I'd like range like that. I get sick of filling up all the time.
First want to get an electra glide but something like that would be cool.
There's another kind of riding???
My 675 turns maybe 4,500 at that speed, my Speed Triple is right around 5k but it also has a 17/45 sprocket set (-1/+3) in 6th. Most 1000cc I-4 Super Sports do 8k at 60mph...in first gear. You wouldn't even bother using 6th in traffic, I would usually be in forth around there. My last GSX-R would have been under 4k at 60mph in 6th.
They are geared that high.
I can't speak for the sport tourers the only one I have ridden is a K1300S and no one warned me it was a 170hp bike, so I was busy playing with wave of power more than I was paying attention to where the tach was at what speed.
Here is a dyno off of a last gen K1300 68ft/lbs at 2400 RPM, is more than respectable. I doubt most 88" TCs are even close to that at that RPM.
@bctn, HD's don't have a corner on the long ride comfort market. Over the summer I had a 15 hr day on the Bandit, stopping for lunch and gas. I quit because it was getting on to midnight and I was generally fatigued, next day I kept on going... no back issues, though after I got home I added bar risers to ease my neck a bit. The SV1k I rode had a seriously hard seat but thats not hard to fix. Sounds like you're into the cruiser idea, no problem with that- but cruisers are not automatically more comfortable. Any bike you get will need more or less tailoring of accomodations.
Similarly just cause the HD engines redline at 5k or whatever doesn't make them "easier running". Get on a Bandit w/ its I4 and you're still cruising at 70mph at 4k or so, with another 4-5 thousand more in the engine's high horsepower/torque range if you want it. So the bandit is just loafing along at the usual highway speeds. I've had it come in handy on occasion, not to go > 100 but for a quick getaway out of a cage cluster-f@&k. My old Suzi cruiser could do that stuff too but its helpful to have the wider rpm band, gives you more time for shifting gears.
I like cruisers but I'd never go back to riding them- the lean angle argument is one reason but that wide rpm band is the major one; I find it a better tool for managing the ride.
It would also be heavy as hell and produce a lot of heat if it has a turbo. The increased cost of a gallon fuel, maintenance (let a injector pump go out), and additional cost of a diesel motor over a gas one will pretty much negate any savings in fuel economy. Plus desiels have a very narrow window of RPM's where they are efficient, unless you plan on always keeping it in that range you are yet again negating the benefits of a diesel.
But, since yo are hell bent on one, why not build one rather than talk about them? Plenty of people have done it...lol. Or you could buy a bike that's close and drop a tooth or two on the rear sprocket. One thing you are not considering is that motorcycle engines are "happy" at higher RPM's that cars. My 919 gets better MPG's when I shift about 4k and the plugs stay cleaner.
And for the record, its not good to lug a motor, puts excessive strain on the bearings ;-)
Oh and even 600cc Japanese I-4s usually have about a 65mph range per gear, if you are hunting around for gears you are either running it well beyond sane street gears or you aren't letting them spin.
I've seen guys do that, a cruiser rider that took my 675 came back and called it guttless. I told him to quit babying it and see if he could make the LED's on the tach light up.
He came back pale and frightened, something about "Nothing is supposed to go that fast on the street." This is with a middle weight, the 1000cc big horsepower bikes like a ZX-10R or S100RR can only be descibed as mindbending. They both break 100 in first.
....and the ZX-14, and Hayabusa are just behind them in the stupid fast category, despite being loosely termed as sport tourers.
First off, I have ridden a Sport Bike. My dad used to have a Gixxer 1000. That thing was too fast for the street too! It was scary past 8K.
Tripped1 same as my Shadow 700. I agree it is also more comfortable at higher RPMs. But a Twin Cam does make far more than 68 ft/lbs @2,400. Don't know for sure about the TC 88, but I know the 96 does around 80-90 ft/lbs range. But that is pretty respectiable for being at only 2,400 RPM, espically for a high revving motor.
gpounce thats a long ride! However, with the right setups on either bike, I find it quite hard to believe that a Bandit 1000 will be more comfy than a fully loaded, dressed Ultra Classic, with a good seat, big backrest, highway bars, etc. I have, lower back issues, and I love the foot foward position for long rides. My Shadow 700 is somewhat a cruiser, but I start to ache in the lower back after about 3 hours. I do believe you that its very comfortable, with a good setup. But that foot peg position would be a major issue for me. Everyone is different though, I believe some don't even find the foot foward position all that comfortable, but for me its the best.
Jnich77 Diesel vs. Gas is an never ending arguement cost wise. It depends on what you do. If you commute, stay away from a diesel. They do not like short runs, like 1-2 miles, and nothing else. They like to be worked, and longer drives to get up to operating temp. My Ram 3500 has 211,000+ miles, and runs great. Yes, maintainence can be very costly. Prices is more. But usually in the summer Diesel around here is cheaper than Gas, in winter not the case. BUT, you can't tell me I'm the same as with my old truck. 8 MPG vs 21 highway. With the longer drives I do when I work its no comparison. Yes if an injector pump goes out it would take a while to pay for it self. BUT still for the most part its no comparison.
It depends on what you do really. I just thought it'd be neat. I do not really have the skills or place to build a diesel bike. I just thought it'd be neat.
Yes I have found bikes like to rev more than cars.
I do agree with y'all on a lot. But theres nothing like listining to a big V-Twin cruise on the highway, just thumping along. I am not a big inch cruiser only guy. Its just I perfer them for trips. I get sick of that kind of bike on shorter rides though. But this is intresting, I like hearing from all y'all.
My Speed Triple puts 68ft/lbs down at 2800 and its only 955cc the only engine mods are a mild port job and a 5* advance on the cams. The 95" put down more torque (in addition of *gasp* 6th gear), and I'm sure the 103"s make even more. I used the 88" specifically.
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68ft/pounds is actually about all you see from a stock 88" and the I-4s and I-3s that make that sort of torque maintain it all the way across the band.
Oh well say no more. If that is what you want have at it.
I personally don't particularly like twins at lower RPM, but admittedly I'm a speed freak, so big heavy and high torque = big heavy and slow to me....and I'm not some dude that randomly bashes Harleys, I've owned a couple and my ex-owned a couple and I used to spend a LOT of time wrenching on people's bikes.
The only Harley I'm really interested is a Street Rod, and then only because I want to put Road King fairings and bags with a Turbo on it and call it a "tourer"......