trials suspension setup resource?

Discussion in 'Trials' started by ThrottleJock, Mar 16, 2012.

  1. Jonny042

    Jonny042 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Oddometer:
    113
    I haven't got a final price from yet but I am going to guess 300 will do both ends of the bike, give or take a few bucks.

    Comparitively speaking that is quite a bit for springs but then like everything else trials related, it is pretty specialized stuff, very specific to the application, and you can't put a price on the added help/advice that comes along with a purchase from someone like Stu.
    #41
  2. laser17

    laser17 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Oddometer:
    957
    Location:
    Boston,Massachusetts
    I think Jon has a new Raga bike - so is fortunate to have the Reiger shock with the Adjustable rebound and compression damping. The forks are still Marzocchi's but with new valving to match the new shock.
    #42
  3. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,497
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Ks
    Thanks, we own the newest raga 300 for this year as well. got it in sept of 11 I believe it was just in time for our regionals I recall.

    I just haven't seen anyone with a '12 racing version yet. I semi recalled someone mentioned in this thread, which my information was "older' but was told that they "expected" theyd be sold with a slightly less expensive reiger version, which had only a single (cant recall what) adjustable reiger shock to be sold on the racings models and then, was it to be Sachs on the regular models? (Ill go look after I press post). IT is confusing though because you look at racing models on website it says reiger (2way) and now dotn know what that means, raga spelled it out differently, so go figure.

    Anyway, I just wondered if maybe we got lucky and GASGAS, maybe went with the same shock as the Raga for the racing model after all...

    Ours still had the older (AJP) brakes, has anyone in USA seen the bikes with new MFG brakes? I read only a few reports on TC, about new brakes (might be, or just suggesting) needing some more design and testing from parts "flexing" I think it was?
    #43
  4. laser17

    laser17 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Oddometer:
    957
    Location:
    Boston,Massachusetts
    Congrats on the new Raga. I made the mistake of riding a few and now think my bike sucks...(not that I come close to exceeding its "lesser" capabilities)

    The new Race models just came in after several delays and, NO - they dont have a rebound adj. I too was anxious to see if they "maybe" had the rebound capability - but the two Ive seen did not. (I swear GG is like a lottery and will occasionally upgrade bikes on a seemingly random basis...I wouldnt rule an upgrade out for some lucky guy)

    The confusing terminology is because they consider spring preload one of the adjustments. So the Std bike and Race models have 2 adjustments!

    The new formula brakes seem very good straight out of the box.(BTW: all the Ragas were still AJP) The formula levers are very nice. The brakes feel strong and linear. I know there was alot of chatter before regarding issues, but so far so good as far as Ive heard. Maybe to soon to really be certain - but given the choice - i would pick Formula. The clutch seemed good too - but again - very low sample size. I thing the pull is slightly higher. (could be clutch pak thickness issue)

    IMHO: Even though the race models have the "cheaper shock" - its still a huge improvement over the Sachs or even the Ohlins on last years bike - provided you dont need a big spring change it should work very very well. Since im an engineer, I cant help but drool over the newer Reiger "factory" shock with all its capabilities and think good riders will get alot out of it. I think this must have been what GG was talking about last year with all the "patented" rear suspension talk. I hope it shows up on this years Raga bike.

    The new magnetic kill tether is interesting. I can see this saving a few engines and can also see a few unintentional killed motors. we'll see.




    #44
  5. Jonny042

    Jonny042 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Oddometer:
    113
    I am getting the "Race" and agree that the "2-way" means preload and a single damping adjustment, as the Raga is listed as having "3-way" adjustment.

    I pick it up on Thursday! I do have an event this weekend but probably won't have any time to fire it up until after the weekend.... I am hoping to get it all kitted out with the stiffer springs and such by the time the CO nats roll around but we shall see: I am keeping the 2011 for now, since I feel it is working great for me. I made the mistake of riding Texas last year on a bike I had only ridden two or three times and didn't really have a great weekend. I guess I don't have the skill/experience to ride around a bike that isn't "just right".

    I guess I better go practice. All this suspension tuning doesn't do a thing if your feet are on the ground!!!
    #45
  6. laser17

    laser17 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Oddometer:
    957
    Location:
    Boston,Massachusetts
    Boy - I should really be more careful reading posts. Wrong end of your bike1st and the wrong bike 2nd...

    Let us know how you like the new ride and how it compares to your 11. One thing I will say about the 12 race- it sure is a pretty bike. GG is doing a nice job these past few years on the look.
    #46
  7. Jonny042

    Jonny042 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Oddometer:
    113
    Quick report on the new Bike - it's beautiful! Like you said, it's a looker, I really like the black wheels. The graphics are a little "busy" I think but other than that I don't have any complaints.

    No real report on the suspension as I didn't even check the adjusters to see where they were, but can say it feels "slow" compared to my '11 with the stiffer rear spring and "stiffened" forks. But then the bouncy bits seem to take a while to break in.

    At first ride the formula brakes/clutch lever are a definite upgrade from the AJP and those crappy plastic lever bushings - they look to be very nicely made, and happy to report the front brake has really nice feel and good stopping power. Clutch feels more or less the same. I LOVE the new adjuster setup it is far superior to the last setup - no tools required to adjust reach! I have been buying S3 lever adjusters to solve this problem but the aluminum thumbscrews are easily destroyed and recently gave up on them altogether.

    I really like the fact that GG keep moving forward, even if it's just tiny details - for example I always looked at the steel spacers for the footpegs and thought it would make sense to make them out of Aluminum, sure enough these new ones are! There always seems to be a few things like that on a new bike that - that's peanuts I know but it shows they are commited to continuous improvement.
    #47
  8. Pro_Marinero

    Pro_Marinero Carbon Sasquatch

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2005
    Oddometer:
    2,098
    Location:
    Ellensburg, WA
    This might have been shared already, but I didn't see it after a cursory glance:

    GG Suspension Setup
    #48
  9. Jonny042

    Jonny042 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Oddometer:
    113
    I'm pretty sure that this writeup was originally posted on the trialspartsusa website and was wirtten by Jon Stoodley (spelling??)

    Just giving credit where it's due - it's a great writeup.
    #49
  10. Jonny042

    Jonny042 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Oddometer:
    113
    Stu at Jack's Cycle has been fantastic to deal with, and I can highly recommend that anyone give him a call, ESPECIALLY in regards to the Reiger stuff.

    In addition to that both the front and rear springs ended up being CHEAPER than initially suggested. Thanks STU!!!!
    #50
  11. mung

    mung Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Oddometer:
    626
    Location:
    Idaho
    When I buy springs that are 10% stiffer I have always assumed[dangerous word that] since springs is plural that to me means that the two together add up to 10% percent. That means that each one is worth only 5%.Use one spring you are 5% stiffer.Use two springs you are 10% stiffer.If you have .40 springs now and get 10% stiffer springs and install both you will have .44 springs.If you install one you will have .42 total spring rate.Normally springs are sold in sets of two for forks.Just something to ponder.
    #51
  12. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,497
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Ks
    Mung unfortunately I read and asked questions, and I was told (and sorry, it felt that way when I bought them) that they are a (pair) of 10% stiffer springs, for total 20%, if you use both. I cannot tell you much more on how I know, or have been led to believe it, but that is what I believe and would keep telling everyone. Mine came from Adrian at lewisport.
    #52
  13. ThrottleJock

    ThrottleJock Shaved Ape

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2007
    Oddometer:
    86
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Sting I'd tend to agree with you there. I got the same setup (10% springs from Adrian at Lewisport) and they feel much more than 10% stiffer than the stock limp noodle springs I took out. That's a good thing though, because I love it. I've given up some 1mph full-lock slippery condition traction at the front wheel but the improvement it's made in my ability to lunge (hop, levitate, whatever you want to call it... I'm not up on the terms yet) is tremendous. I fear no splatter now. Well, as long as it's not higher than, say, 5 feet. I'm still a newbie. :)
    #53
  14. mung

    mung Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Oddometer:
    626
    Location:
    Idaho
    I will agree to disagree on that point.My Raga came with .30 springs stock.I installed .40 springs for my 250 pounds..30 to .40 is more than 20% stiffer and to me they feel perfect.Plush on the little stuff, stays up in the travel and handles slammers very well.When are we going to meet at FMOH ? Perfect place to try each others theories out.I go there 2 or 3 times a year. It is only a 9 hour drive for me.
    #54
  15. laser17

    laser17 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Oddometer:
    957
    Location:
    Boston,Massachusetts
    The Equivalent K for 2 springs connected in Parallel (like a fork) is:

    Keq=K1+k2

    So if you have a .3 K spring in each leg - you have a .6k total.

    If you bought 10% stiffer springs - you still have a 10% stiffer total - not 20%
    (.33k+.33k)=.66k

    Likewise, use only one and you have a 5% stiffer total.
    #55
  16. Sting32

    Sting32 Trials Evangelist

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,497
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Ks

    Laser, the question at hand is, they "market" them as 10% stiffer spring, sold only in pairs. so each spring seems to be 10% stiffer. which meant to everyone that has bought a pair (since they wont sell just 1 at Lewissports, as far as I know to be 20% stiffer overall...) I weighed up around or over, 280 lbs when I 1st bought and installed the 'pair" and they were too stiff even for me at that weight. Then it was worse, especially when I lost 20 lbs not long after install. I rode it that way for a few months, I then took both springs out of that 08 raga pro, moved only 1 to my 2010 raga pro, and it seems about right. Then I lost another 40+ lbs lbs during the last year. I now weight 210-220 geared up, and one spring is great, yet on stiffer side still. I ended up selling the 2nd spring to a fellow big rider buddy, and he loves it in his 2010 250 Raga...

    My point only being a call to Lewissport might be in order to find out for sure! I know that is what the Parts guru around me said they would be, and the 3 or 4 other guys in my club, ordered and split out pairs, seemed to state, that each spring is being about 10% stiffer spring than stock spring.

    I want to UP FRONT also state, nothing around me is "perfect world" with respect to memory either, becuase when ANY of the bikes I ride/owned, they were bought new and was "Dad's bike" who is 6' 3" and was also close to 210-215 in weight, hes a litttle less nowdays I think. But, that was 3 or 4 years ago on the 2008 Raga... and we might have added to the spacers for stock springs in the 08, and IF it was, I didnt change them when I added to the 2 springs to that 08 Raga... But, we know he did NOT modify the 2010 shocks at all, so when I got it, it was all stock, I put one in and up until recently I liked it a LOT, but when wet, it is borderline stiff IMHO but doesnt bother me like it did with 2 of them. PS my Raga 08 Raga 300 has aluminum forks, unlike some have steel forks.
    #56
  17. laser17

    laser17 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Oddometer:
    957
    Location:
    Boston,Massachusetts
    All I can tell you is that if you put a 10% stiffer spring in each leg - you get a 10% overall increase - not 20%, Hence, why they call it a 10% increase. Please feel free to look it up and compare the math with my above example. FWIW: Theres bound to be a difference between mfg's and new vs old springs - so I'll bet if you measured them, it would be different than 10% on the nose.
    #57
  18. Jonny042

    Jonny042 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Oddometer:
    113
    I think you are both right - the springs aren't 10% stiffer, they are 20% stiffer - I've ridden a bike with a set of the lewisport springs and it was stiff for sure, definitly 20% at least.


    I think the confusion must have originally been if they were sold as 10% each for a total of 20% or something. Well that's silly. You mean if I put a 10% stiffer spring on the back I'm up to 30%??

    .02.
    #58
  19. laser17

    laser17 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Oddometer:
    957
    Location:
    Boston,Massachusetts
    I agree - the 10% fork springs feel alot stiffer than 10%. - Im not sure why. My 20% rear spring felt like a leaf spring from a dump truck as well (at 1st). I can assure you though, on paper, when you increase 1/2 of the spring force by 10% (one spring), the total spring force goes up by 5%. Throw that out the window if the guy making the springs and the guy selling them are on different pages. Thats probably yours and Stings point - so I agree with you.

    However, You can find the exact difference if you really want. Put a weight on each spring and measure the change in length. A 10% stiffer spring "SHOULD" have a 10% smaller change in length.

    Speaking of springs - did you install your new spring on the Reiger? One of our best riders here just swapped the Sachs shock on his Beta for a Reiger and he says its the best $1100 bucks he's ever spent. (its the one with H/L comp and rebound adj) He was letting others try his bike with a warning that they should decline unless there ready to spend $1100. Im glad he likes it some much as he's a great rider as well as a super nice guy who helps alot of riders here improve there skills.
    #59
  20. mung

    mung Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Oddometer:
    626
    Location:
    Idaho
    Spring rate has nothing to do with "feel". It has everything to do with math. My Raga came with .30 springs stock.If I put one 10% stiffer spring in the total spring rate increase for both fork legs is to .315.[.30+.33 divided by 2].If I put two 10% stiffer springs in I would end up with a rate of .33.[.33+.33 divided by 2]. Yes, I do feel better now.
    #60