Triple clamps design question

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Carlos M, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. Carlos M

    Carlos M www.motoxplorers.com

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    Hello,

    I have got a bottom triple clamp made for a BMW G650X that I am trying to install on an HP2.

    However, it looks like the bore for the steering stem axle is not aligned with the fork bores.

    Aren’t all the axis of a triple clamp’s bores supposed to be parallel???

    Thanks,

    C

    Edit: clarification, it is the X Challenge’s triple

    Attached Files:

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  2. tomrux

    tomrux Been here awhile

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    Not necessarily so Carlos. By having them in different planes the resultant fork rake and or trail measurements can be altered without frame modification . Thing is, to do this results in a pair of tripples that are mated to one another. Mix n match is therefore not possible.

    Cheers Tom R
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  3. Carlos M

    Carlos M www.motoxplorers.com

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    Thanks for your prompt reply. I sort of guessed that it could be one of the things a customizer could try, but wondering if in general OEM production it would ever happen??

    This particular bottom clamp is supposed to be used together with the OEM upper clamp of the 650X. It would mean the bike would have been conceived this way from factory, which I find surprising. :dunno
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  4. sieg

    sieg Wearing out tires......2 at a time, day after day.

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    Not familiar with that specific bike, but I would think it is very likely.
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  5. tomrux

    tomrux Been here awhile

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    It is one of the ways manufacturers sell the same,ish bike to different sub markets. Change the rake and you can go from cruiser to sports to adv all utilising the same basic model.

    Cheers Tom R
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  6. lnewqban

    lnewqban Ninjetter

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    The important thing is either or not the holes of the top triple perfectly align with the holes of the bottom triple shown in your picture.
    If you have to force that alignment, something is off.

    It could be a machining error or improper installation of the central tube.
    If you can zoom in this picture enough, it seems that the head column and telescopic tubes are parallel:

    [​IMG]
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  7. tomrux

    tomrux Been here awhile

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    Inewqban.
    Never heard of raked triple clamps?
    It is not necessary to have them in line and in fact is quite often done to change rake and or trail without the need for frame modifications, don't preach if you dont know your subject.
    Both after market and oem raked triples are common.

    Mate read your post, the top holes have to align with the top holes, mmm doh.

    Cheers Tom R
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  8. sieg

    sieg Wearing out tires......2 at a time, day after day.

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    You must have some sort of x-ray vision if you can see the angle of the steering head from that picture.
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  9. Carlos M

    Carlos M www.motoxplorers.com

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    On my original post I have not correctly defined the bike for which the triple was originally designed, it was the X-Challenge. The one on your picture is the X-Moto.

    I’ll edit my post.

    In any case it is impossible to determine from a side picture...
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  10. tomrux

    tomrux Been here awhile

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    Sieg
    Hadn't thought if that.

    Cheers Tom R
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  11. shovelstrokeed

    shovelstrokeed Long timer

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    Offset is the dimension or term you are looking for, it really does not effect rake but rather trail. No bike I'm aware of runs raked triple trees but many use offset triple trees. Offset is the distance from the centerline of the fork legs to the centerline of the steering stem. Most street bikes and most dirt bikes run some amount of offset. You will sometimes see zero offset on race bikes or even negative offset, depending on the location of the front axle on the lower legs.
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  12. tomrux

    tomrux Been here awhile

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    Shovelstrokeed
    Um no I am not talkin about ofset. Different measurements

    Please explain then

    images.jpeg
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  13. Yossarian™

    Yossarian™ Deputy Cultural Attaché

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    This statement confuses me; can you please explain?
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  14. kenny robert

    kenny robert Long timer

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    with clamps raked the tubes can only be freely inserted after top bottom clamps are positioned
    you cant really slide top clamp off without binding
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  15. lnewqban

    lnewqban Ninjetter

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    Yes, of course.
    In the OP, Carlos stated that he was trying to make a bottom triple clamp made for a BMW G650X work for a HP2.
    He has been surprised by the apparent fact that the bore for the steering stem axle is not aligned with the fork bores.

    I don't know if the triple clamps for the BMW G650X are actually raked or not.
    It is not clear in his post if he has the top triple for that bike as well.

    Assuming that he does, I am simply suggesting to try the assembly in order to verify if all the holes (top and bottom) are aligned.
    If they do, there is nothing wrong with the triple clamp that he has, because it is actually raked by design.
    If they don't, then something is off with that part he has.

    The important thing is either or not the holes of the top triple perfectly align with the holes of the bottom triple.
    If you have to force that alignment, something is off.
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  16. Yossarian™

    Yossarian™ Deputy Cultural Attaché

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    I understand the idea, but not the statement, which you reused in your latest missive.

    Why would the holes of the top triple not align with themselves? Is there some magic I'm missing?
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  17. lnewqban

    lnewqban Ninjetter

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    Sorry for the statement being confusing, I may make it more confusing even. :(
    Nothing magic; the telescopic tubes are either paralell to the central column or they are divergent.

    If the bottom part that Carlos has is defective, its top counterpart will not align, because the off distances among the holes and column are the same for top and bottom clamps (parallel case).
    In that scenario, the telescopic tubes will be forced to run away from the central column where they reach the plane of the top clamp (please, see his picture).

    If the part was meant to have a rake angle as shown in his picture, then the tubes and the top and bottom triple clamps will perfectly fit together when he tries the assembly, as long as the distance between both clamps remains the same as designed, as kenny robert has pointed above.
    In that case, the off distance between column and tube's holes will be bigger for the top clamp than for the bottom one (shown in his picture).
    That would reduce the trail of the steering.

    This article explains it much better than I can:
    http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rakeandtrail.html

    [​IMG]
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  18. Yossarian™

    Yossarian™ Deputy Cultural Attaché

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    Yep, totally get it. Re-read the sentence of yours that I quoted. Read it carefully.
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  19. lnewqban

    lnewqban Ninjetter

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    I did.
    Sorry, I simply don't understand.
    What would you suggest to correct my mistake?
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  20. sieg

    sieg Wearing out tires......2 at a time, day after day.

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    ^Duh
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