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Discussion in 'British Beasts: Triumph Tigers' started by ScrambDaddy, Jul 12, 2010.
Which is fucking idiotic because Husqvarna is and has always been a very dirt-oriented brand.
Haven't we already beaten this dead horse enough? I thought it was already pretty well established that the Tiger 800 was conceptualized back in 2007, before the F800GS was even on market. More of a parallel evolution process, rather than Triumph copying BMW.
I'm not fluent in Italian, but "Agosto 2007" is pretty obvious (see link)
Mark 1: From what I've read on the many reports so far, Husqvarna has been linked with four models: enduro, street/enduro, supermoto, and street fighter. So yes, there is overlap if these reports are correct.
Mark 2: Not so fast with the "idiotic" appraisal. It may be that the idiotic move is the overlap between BMW and Husqvarna. And BTW, Husqvarna has been in the supermoto category for a while. Although that is hardly "real" street, that's where some of their bikes have been geared to be ridden.
Will be interesting to see the new Husky 900. I have heard rumors of an updated F800GS. Definitely over due.
Regards BMW's intentions with Husqvarna ... the Cruiser claim is something I hadn't heard. What I originally heard was BMW were to expand Huskies off road racing presence. They are already racing in GNCC competition and some other areas and have already won world championships in Europe (World Enduro) as well as much success in Super Moto competition here and abroad. The plan, as I understood it, was Husky would lead the way in off road racing. As we all know, David Knight pretty much sealed BMW's fate for their own G450 race bike ... an utter failure.
Cruisers and BMW:
BMW were already badly burned trying to build a cruiser ... remember the White Elephant?
A horrible embarrassment for them and one I doubt they want to repeat.
Husqvarna seem the most unlikely ... and unholy host for a cruiser.
But "One never know, do one" ... after all, look at the Ducati Diavel.
A power cruiser that you can actually ride! Who knew?
One thing is sure ... the F800GS has been a phenomenal success for BMW ... despite the problems, no doubt they are married to this bike for quite some time. An upgrade is sure to come ... and you know they'll have Triumph in their sights.
Could someone please direct me to the Tiger 800 thread? I seem to have lost it...............
He should be ashamed for duping the public into paying a premium price for an inferior product.
I did notice that my F800GS needed a bit of time for the suspension to break in, so I reserve my judgement.
I know someone who is buying one, so when its run in I will ask for a ride and see what its like!
I do have to say that I am still happy with my farkled 800GS (might do a bit more work on the forks though ) so I won't be changing in the near future.
I don't find it odd at all, I'm not a sports bike fan, but when BMW launched the S1000RR it clearly took a technology and power leap over the established competition. All the magazines agreed and a friend who had raced GSXR1000's successfully for 5 years (won every club championship he entered) climbed onto the S1000RR and said it was like cheating the thing was so far in front.
What's this got to do with the Tiger 800? Well to my mind as good a bike as it may be, it seems to me to be simply offering a similar choice to the F800GS. Triumph had two years to see and try the competition, they could have come up with something that blew the GS out of the water, instead they came out with something that is merely derivative.
Like Von Kunheim at BMW said, Triumph are better than that and have launched some great bikes in recent years. They had the opportunity to raise the sector bar with Tiger 800 and they didn't take it.
I really resonate with this comment. Yes, there are things that the Triumph does better than the BMW (front suspension being the big one.)
I'm riding an old KTM single and am looking for my next bike. The 800GS has too many compromises and I was really looking forward to the Triumph but it just doesn't really have enough to push me over the edge (to purchase) especially in this economy.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that there's another middleweight ADV bike but my wallet is still in my pocket.
Really good comments Joe!
Regards the S1000RR: True, big hit in the press. But I've yet to see much action on the track. Certainly doing better now in WSB ... once they got rid of crasher Zaus things got better (and cheaper)!
In local club racing here in California Suzuki and Yamaha still dominate. I'm sure BMW will start making headway. IMO, the Japanese have been idling along for 10 years, just pushing forward enough to keep Ducati and Aprilia at bay. But all the while serious R&D continues. Now, they may make a move and use up some of that technical capital they've been saving. Think they might have a few surprises in their bag of tricks?
On the Tiger 800: I'm not sure how much more Triumph could have done, or done better. Sure, they could have gone further ... but what would the bike cost? Also, consider the long term development cycle. You never fire all your guns at once. Look at Honda's long running CBR600 as an example of making use of periodic development cycles ... they've stretched the model out over 20 years ... and it's still a good seller for them.
In this market I'd guess Triumph purposely have erred on the conservative side all the way along, both on styling and engineering. This won't be their last T800/XC Tiger.
They also know that only about 10 to 15% ever take their bikes in any sort of challenging off road conditions. So why spend a fortune making a better off road bike?
IMHO, at some point in future they should offer a Dakar Kit or Dakar version or some such ... up grading everything, taking off a few kgs., better suspenders, butch it up a bit. Think it would sell?
I just got an update from my local dealership that they now have a 800 for test rides. I guess I know what I'm doing on Saturday.
I would be absolutely shocked if Triumph did not come out with a Tiger 800 XC-R (or similar designation) in a year or two with upgraded suspension, etc.
I just received word from Triumph today that they are going to replace my T800 with a new one. Thank you Triumph for doing the right thing. I will sleep better tonight.
Great comments. And I agree with you that Triumph was conservative and are not wasting all their ammunition at once. They are probably banking on the success of their triple engines and I think they can rely on that for a few years.
About the 10-15% who will take their bikes on serious off-road situations:
I think the number of people who really need better suspension and better off-road characteristics on a bike may even be less than 10%. That could be the reason why BMW themselves have been reluctant to create a more off-road version of the F800GS. They probably know that such niche bikes carry mostly marketing value (advertisement of the brand, brand imagery). More off-road vehicles are likely to have no economies of scale because of the higher cost to produce such bikes and the small number of people who buy them. HP2 is an example at hand.
I doubt Triumph will need to go there in the next 4 years to maintain a market position, as they are just in this market with a brand new product line. BMW, on the other hand, may be expanding their line up to off-road bikes via Husqvarna. The ball is now on BMW's court to raise the bar...
Congratulations to you and to Triumph!
Agreed, very impressive move by Triumph. Look, manufacturers of big ticket items do not have a great track record of doing the wright thing in situations like this. I give Triumph huge credit for taking care of this without a big fight. You know, there is a pretty darn good chance that corporate is aware of this thread. Advrider may have entered into this equation.
I have had a warranty claim on my center stand. The day I took my new T800 home the spring fell off. I will be getting a new center stand this Tuesday. I am happy.
The Tiger 800 street model sounds about perfect for what I'm looking for.
I have enough dirt bikes, two of which can do light touring pretty well.
I'm the patient type, though, so will wait awhile until the hype settles.
Hope to do a test ride soon as the Phx Tiger dealer has an XC for demo.
I talked to another dealer in Texas and his suggestion was to put down a deposit if I wanted one this year... they're selling like hotcakes!
The only negative I have read seems to be fuel economy/range and non-adjustable suspension.
If it gets 200 miles on a tank, it's probably fine for me.
As far as suspension, can't people upgrade the forks and shocks themselves if they need more capability?
I'll probably pop for one this Fall.
Look forward to something with some zip and comfort on the street.
well this definitely makes me more confident during my consideration of buying an xc800 for sure. good news.
there is definitely a rule where you do not buy the first generation of any vehicle. Triumph's reliability is legendary, I wonder if this applies to their first run products as well.