Triumph Tiger 800

Discussion in 'British Beasts: Triumph Tigers' started by ScrambDaddy, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. outactrl

    outactrl Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2008
    Oddometer:
    139
    Location:
    nowhere interesting
    Triumph doesn't know why either. Dropped my bike off yesterday for the 3rd time to correct this issue. They had it 3 weeks last time, ended up replacing the throttle bodies, but that didn't help. They ran all the diagnostics and found nothing wrong. Ladies, I've been following your ride report and absotulely love it! I bought the Tiger to do trips exaclty like yours. I would hate for you to have to cut your trip short because of this issue. But Triumph does not have a fix for this, hoping you get home safe.
  2. SpaceManSpiff

    SpaceManSpiff Man of Mystery

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,075
    Location:
    Tucson, Arizona
    Can it be that sidestand return spring is too weak, causing the sidestand to "bang around" on bumpy/rough sections, causing the sidestand switch to "think" the side stand is down, and turning the engine off. Could explain some of the stalling described....:scratch
  3. motomart

    motomart Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Oddometer:
    89
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    So far I have had 3000 fabulous kilometers on my XC then one hot summer day I am out for a ride trough the city when I notice the idle dropping at stop lights something didn’t feel right. I am in third gear 60 kmh coming up to a stop I pull in the clutch to down shift I release he clutch the back wheel locks up and the bike starts fish tailing I pull in the clutch instantly and pull over the bike has stalled. I try to re start it starts and stalls immediately I wait 10 min and it starts and it makes it home. This is my only stalling experience but it took some joy out of riding this bike now there is doubt. The next day going to work in the rain three lanes of traffic I am constantly worried about which lane I’m in the rain slick road the traffic.

    Now the two bikes traveling in Alaska one silver frame one black probably built months apart same amount of km, having the same problems HMMMMM.
  4. cug

    cug --

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Oddometer:
    5,095
    Location:
    Sunny California
    I can't say it enough: file a complaint with the NHTSA or Triumph will not acknowledge the problem but will keep trying to fix on a one by one basis.

    It doesn't take long and might one day safe a life. Maybe it's someone you know ...

    https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
  5. Lion BR

    Lion BR I'd rather be riding

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,350
    Location:
    Oregon
    No. It also happens when the bike is stopped, and in neutral.
  6. Deano955

    Deano955 Insatiable

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,058
    Location:
    Eames Lounge Adv'er
    My 2012 XC has the Arrow pipe and map. And as fate would have it, it stalls a lot and spent 25 days in the shop over the idle issue.

    I got it back yesterday and rode the heck out of it this weekend. About 500 miles worth of Dual Sport riding. This is the design intent isn't it?

    So in the last 500 miles, after it being in the shop for 25 days, it stalls a lot. It did not do that when I brought it in for it's 500 mile service. 25 days and a new throttle body assembly later it has stalled no less than 20 times.

    I live at altitude. I ride at altitude. It seemed to me yesterday that the stalling might be altitude related (over 10,000 feet was the worst of it) but coming home today, at a mile high, it stalled pulling into my driveway.

    The bike currently has 1340 miles on it.

    I'm pissed off!
  7. Deano955

    Deano955 Insatiable

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,058
    Location:
    Eames Lounge Adv'er
    No shit, you crossed water that many times? And no instant death?

    I was washing my bike this evening and looked closer at the suspected part. It actually has a rubber elbow on the front of it that looks like a drain. The part in question is just below the countershaft sprocket. It has 2 wires on the back of it and the drain tube on the front. Don't know what it is, but I suspect that is the reason my bike stalled in that little water crossing. Really, the water was about as high as that part. The bike died and would not restart until I pushed the Beast out of the water. Then within a few tries, it started back up.

    I rode it again today, for about 300 miles. I covered some nice DS passes and had a great day. However, the bike stalled on me 5 times.

    Unfortunately, you might be on to something regarding the Lemon Law...
  8. Mercury264

    Mercury264 Once you go Triple...

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Oddometer:
    22,353
    Location:
    Masshole
    Isn't that the charcoal canister ?
  9. jimjim

    jimjim Just another FF!

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,778
    Location:
    oHIo
    Yes that's the charcoal canister and it shouldn't have anything to do with Deano's stalling. Those are not electrical wires but rubber hoses attached to the back.
  10. cug

    cug --

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Oddometer:
    5,095
    Location:
    Sunny California
    When the charcoal canister on the F800GS sucked water (on really rainy days or during water crossings), the bike stalled. And it killed the charcoal over time - which it then might have sucked into more sensible parts of the bike.

    Solution was to put a T in the hose that went from the canister down to the lower parts of the bike and route a hose somewhere under the seat from it. That solution was suggested by a BMW mech on a forum and solved canister related stalling and was later the official change in the recall issued by BMW.

    Worth a look.

    Check out the F800GS findings here.
  11. Xcountry-Rider

    Xcountry-Rider Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Oddometer:
    912
    Location:
    Pine Valley, California (San Diego County)
    I'm wondering if this is the clue to the problem. Maybe the stalling issue has something to do with the charcoal filter?
  12. cug

    cug --

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Oddometer:
    5,095
    Location:
    Sunny California
    It can't be for all cases as people with Canadian bikes have it, too, and those don't have a charcoal filter (rightly so because that POS is making more trouble than good).
  13. Xcountry-Rider

    Xcountry-Rider Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Oddometer:
    912
    Location:
    Pine Valley, California (San Diego County)
    I'm wondering if he may have stumbled on the stalling issue that some folks are having maybe connected to the charcoal canister? I did a google search and there seems to be a good connection to charcoal canisters and stalling issues in other bikes.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=char...gc.r_pw.&fp=262ad8cbc6c4921e&biw=1366&bih=564
  14. cug

    cug --

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Oddometer:
    5,095
    Location:
    Sunny California
    The thing is: European and Canadian spec bikes don't have a canister (not sure about Canadian, but certain about European). And for example Cheryl and Leslie should have Canadian spec bikes, therefore no canister and still they experience stalling.

    It might just be another potentially contributing factor, especially during water crossings.
  15. Xcountry-Rider

    Xcountry-Rider Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Oddometer:
    912
    Location:
    Pine Valley, California (San Diego County)
    Over at this forum folks are saying they've got the problem fixed.

    http://www.triumphrat.net/tiger-800-800xc-technical-talk/180894-furious-tiger-800xc-owner-3.html
  16. sandgroper

    sandgroper Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Oddometer:
    4,825
    Location:
    Wanneroo, Western Australia
  17. Lion BR

    Lion BR I'd rather be riding

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,350
    Location:
    Oregon

    That is interesting. They do not have a solution there, in terms of ECU tune. I mean, nothing different than what people have talked here or in the tiger 800 forum, about the arrow tune resolving the issue for some bit not all. One person mentions a "custom" map, though.

    That same person on that forum (triumph rat) does mention the stepper motor and the actuator. That changing these resolved it, alongside a custom map.

    Here is the text:

    "Got my XC back from the dealer yesterday. They replaced the stepper motor and the actuator. The technician did a custom map and sent the numbers to Triumph. I understand that Triumph is fully aware of this problem and they plan to take care of anyone dealing with this situation. Standby for another official Triumph map very soon."

    This is interesting because when Cheryl and Leslie's bikes were diagnosed with a stepper motor problem, in their Alaska trip, I thought they were finally zooming into the problem. But there is no reference to this in the service summary of the work performed in their bikes (that we read in their thread).

    A stepper motor, AFAIK, in response to ECU commands, would optimize engine performance by advancing/retarding timing on Variable Valve Timing engines according to changes in ambient and engine temperature, for example. My bike, when it stalls, the timing seems to be a bit advanced (specially on warm conditions), as engine at times will not stall but you hear a knock in the situation it would stall (blipping the throttle) and it catches up. And when it stalls, it is sudden, with no sputtering like it could do as a result of a fueling issue.

    And what did solve the issue with that guy in the Triumphrat forum? The replacement of the stepper motor/actuator or the custom map? Or do you need both worked on to resolve it?

    These are just a few thoughts out there... I'm not a mechanic, so please take my comments with a grain of salt (I already made the same comments on the Tiger 800 Forum, based on someone else's similar point there).

    Lion
  18. soph9

    soph9 Would Love to ride ALL the TIME

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,412
    Location:
    Stony Brook. NY
    and what it sounds like when we tried to start it yesterday. Cheryl tweaked the throttle cable and no stalls after that for now.


    <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Gx1Y6nYPq8I" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="349"></iframe>
  19. The Jerk

    The Jerk Bring us some fresh wine!

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,662
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Ok you've got some bad info in here so I just want to clarify a couple things so the issue does not become even more confused.

    A stepper motor is simply an electric motor that is configured to make very fine movements.

    You are confusing ignition timing and valve timing which are two wholly different concepts. No motors or moving parts are used to adjust ignition timing (these days). The ignition timing is part of the ECU tune and is adjusted electronically via the ECU according to the map.

    Valve timing is static and is set by the engine designers when the camshafts are designed and manufactured. Triumphs do not have variable valve timing.

    The stepper motor in Triumph's case is a small electric motor (or motors - I can't recall if there's just one or if there's one for each throttle body) whose job it is to make fine adjustments to throttle angle to maintain a stable idle at the target idle speed as programmed within the ECU map. The ECU map provides for a target idle speed which is based upon coolant temperature.

    Here's a screen shot of the idle speed mapping as shown in TuneECU. You can see that the ECU has a few reference points for what the target idle speed should be for various coolant temperatures and it extrapolates the points in between the defined target points.

    [​IMG]

    You can thank Microsoft for the shitty quality of this jpeg.

    I'll be interested to see how this angle plays out.
  20. Lion BR

    Lion BR I'd rather be riding

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,350
    Location:
    Oregon
    Thank you, I appreciate the clarification. Can we say, then, that according to that poster the problem solution involves a software (ECU tune) and a hardware (stepper motor) correction? And what is the actuator?
    Lion