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Discussion in 'British Beasts: Triumph Tigers' started by ScrambDaddy, Jul 12, 2010.
I don't think I would go that far. While I agree with you that riding at low rpm is not the cause of the Tiger 800 issues, it is not unheard off for this type of riding to cause problems. For example puttering around, especailly under 3000 rpm, on carbed Bonnies will cause them to carbon up and carbon up badly.
This is a fuel injected bike. The whole system is computer controlled. If I can ride the bike in any way that makes it then stall at idle or when transitioning from load to idle, there is a problem in the system, not in how I drive.
One must be completely nuts to
1) claim that the riding style can be wrong and therefore start this behavior and / or
2) accept this behavior at all.
No matter how I ride a bike, it should never ever show this. If it does, given that it is completely fuel injected and computerized, something is wrong with the bike, not the riding.
And I can still not understand why people are not complaining with NHTSA - have you never worked with any manufacturer at all?
If there is a problem reported by user(s) to the company, one engineer might be looking into this in the time he has left after doing his other work, therefore, not very much is done at all. As soon as you get official traction, an official agency involved for example, with the added pressure that this could, in some circumstances cause physical harm to a person (have the freaking thing stall on a busy highway, on an intersection, some other weird traffic situation) and the threat of charges against that said manufacturer, you will have a group of engineers looking full time into the problem until it is solved.
Triumph might be looking into things and I'm fairly certain they are, but to get traction on this, rider reports do absolutely nothing to make this move faster. That's just not how manufacturers work.
Nobody said there is not an issue that needs to be addressed. What was brought up is the question as to weather or not a certain riding style might be what is triggering the issue. NOT that a certain riding style is right or wrong. It needs to be fixed no matter what the riding style. Knowing what might be triggering it would help with fixing it.
They (Triumph) will get it sorted out.
I don't fit, mine would stall every time I rode it, knock wood has not stalled in the latest 500 miles since the first service was completed. YMMV...
I don't know which one of you I should believe, then.
So, you say, you never said this:
My statements do Not contradict each other. I am simply stating that how the bike is being ridden may indeed be what is causing/exposing the issue that needs to be addressed. Are you two that inept that you can’t understand that?
F.I. Mapping with all its sensors can be a bit finicky. In a perfect world it would work flawlessly for all riders. It rarely works out that was however. How a bike is riiden can and does expose flaws. Triumph will get it sorted out.... And they are not the first moto co. to run into this problem.
I know that at least one Triumph employee reads the UK Tiger 800 forum. Triumph DO read ride reports and are aware of the stalling issues. No news beyond that. A solution will be found I'm sure.
Regards F.I. systems: You do understand that the computer (ECM) in an F.I. system "learns" your riding style and adjusts accordingly? This is not new. Car computers have had this ability for years.
When a vehicle is brand new the computer is learning and storing data and making constant changes as a brand new motor breaks in. Running the bike through its full RPM range is a common method to allow the computer to learn and adjust more quickly and more accurately.
It would only take ONE element being faulty or out of spec to throw all this off. I expect that is what is going on with stalling Tigers. Obviously the fault is not throwing a code ... if it was it would have been solved by now.
But riding a new bike with some aggressiveness can sometimes help settle it down and allow stall free smooth running as the computer "learns".
I helped break in 30 brand new SV650 Suzuki press fleet bikes. Zero miles. This is the technique Suzuki techs insisted upon. We put only 25 miles on each bike. DONE.
The next nut behind the wheel were the magazine guys .... who hit redline before getting out of the parking lot ... and stayed there the entire day. ALL bikes ran perfectly. Not one glitch.
Excuse me, but you said:
Are you too "inept" to understand that you are saying to a rider "you are doing something that is wrong by riding the bike how you ride it"?
If I ride a bike and I keep the engine alive at any point. Then the EFI has a bug when the bike stalls later. And I don't give a shit whether anybody considers any type of riding as "not as the bike should be ridden" - the bike has to deal with it.
What people here are trying (certainly you) is to declare a clear bug in the bikes fuel injection as rider error ("not riding as it should be ridden"). And it doesn't matter whether any kind of riding exposes this bug more or not - a bug stays a bug.
And there is no way "how a bike should be ridden". If a manufacturer sells a bike that can be started, they need to expect all kinds of riders with all kinds of riding habits.
If I write a software that looses data and than say "you are not using the software as it should be used" - that would be equal bullshit. If I bring something on the market that can't deal with normal users, I need to fix it fast or not provide such software. And people like you should not find excuses that aren't excuses. A bug is a bug. No matter how it is exposed. And too many people see this to point to a specific behavior. It's statistically highly unlikely that all those people fall into a specific riding or break-in pattern.
That's exactly why I broke my bike in the way I did. I ride HARD all the time. So that's how I broke it in. No stalling so far at almost 3000 miles. The real test starts a week from today. I leave on about a 3500-4000 mile trip with dad and brother. Can't wait!!!!!
No that is not what I or anyone else is saying. It is what YOU and your inability to comprehend is reading into our posts. We are all in agreement that something is wrong. We are only trying to put forth things that might trigger what it is that needs to be addressed. (in hopes that it will speed up a fix from Triumph)
I am in complete agreement with this part.
There is no other way to take what you posted , other then it's the rider's fault. You stired this whole thing up with your statement, as if you had solved the problem. Maybe you should have stated it a little differantly.
No contradictions, uh?
You mentioned you would eventually be selling these bikes, as a job, right?
Permit me an advice: I think you could do better as a used cars salesman
I do appreciate those with problems posting them up. It's nice to get opinions from those without conflicting interests. Regardless of the reported problems, I ordered an 800 today. If Triumph can't sort out the stalling issue within the warranty, I'll sell. Wish me luck ya FF's. Except for you Dakez! Just kiddin. I'm getting lots of amusement out of the virtual pissing contest. It's almost like real piss!
Maybe I should have. But I didn't.
The thread was dragging a bit I thought I would breath a little life into it.
I'm glad you liked my advice.
Watch your gold chains, they are worth lots of money these days.
I took my Tiger in for the stalling problem, when I got it back he said I could it ride it but it's not fixed. Dealer said he adjusted something but it didn't seem to run any better on the ride home. He told me Triumph is still working on it. They were thinking it was the stepper motor but now are leaning toward a software issue/fix, that throwing parts at it hasn't helped much.
Triumph threw about $1500 worth of parts at my 2012 XC in the form of a new throttle body assembly (which contains the Stepper Motor and Throttle Position Sensor. Both of which were determined by Triumph to be defective). The replacement solved the high idle issue I was having but now the bike stalls. Intermittently, when coming to a stop. Not a "riding style" issue that some of us are proposing. Just dies when the bike comes to a stop. Every rider of any motorcycle will have to come to a stop at several times during their given ride...
During the 25 days that my XC sat at the dealership for repairs I was communicating with Triumph's Customer Relations Manager, Peter Carleo (pm me for his contact info if you want it). He was quite interested in my experience as a customer while the bike was in the shop. He asked me to let him know how the bike runs when I get it out, told me Triumph will throw a few $$ at me for my troubles in the form of accessories. So I let him know that now my bike has a stalling problem, like so many others, and 2 weeks later I have not heard a peep from him. No accessories. No proper running motorcycle that I paid a pant load of money for.
I really question how much Triumph is working on the problem. They're doing shit for me right now.