True Dualsports getting heavier and less powerful?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by mikem9, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. mikem9

    mikem9 Wanderer

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    Why are true dualsport bikes getting heavier and less powerful over time? "True" being defined as the longer maintenance interval bikes meant for 50/50 type riding vs. the more race oriented bikes that come with tags. It would seem that with technology they would get lighter, stronger and more powerful over time. Has anyone else noticed this?

    Here are a few quick comparisons from internet data:

    1984 XT 250 wet weight 275 17 hp
    2008 XT 250 wet weight 291 22 hp (Note - horsepower is better in newer one for yamaha)
    (Note: 2004 XT 225 wet weight 265)

    1986 XL600R - 321 Wet Weight. 43 hp
    2012 XR650L - 346 Wet Weight 35 hp

    XR 250L - 250 dry weight 28 hp (claimed)
    CRF250L - 295 dry weight 18 - 22 hp

    Note - WR250 R - 295 wet weight, more horsepower - But, still heavy for a 250.
    #1
  2. OrangeYZ

    OrangeYZ Been here awhile

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    Emissions.
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  3. beemerjim

    beemerjim Been here awhile

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    Whadda you talking about. My KLR is the epitome of light & fast. Always was, always will be.
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  4. Canuman

    Canuman Crusty & Unobliging

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    A true race-bred machine, that KLR with lightness and power above all! Paddling mine through UP sugar sand this summer nearly made me take up golf!
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  5. RB450

    RB450 Been here awhile

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    What is a "true dualsport"?

    KTM's are all plateable and ready to ride on street or dirt right out of the box.

    Plenty of horsepower, and light waeight through the range...
    #5
  6. mikem9

    mikem9 Wanderer

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    I have two KTM EXC's - 400 and 450. I think of them as plated race bikes, not true dual sports. I don't mind riding them on street to get to trails once in the mountains, but I don't like the way they feel to go longer distance or a day of just taking backroads. Plus the maintenance intervals are too much to waste that on the street. On my buddies XT 250, or another's XR650L, I'd feel comfortable riding all day on blacktop backroads.
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  7. It'sNotTheBike

    It'sNotTheBike Banned

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    KTM 690 Enduro :

    315 pounds, 60 horsepower.

    I'm not sure I see a huge amount of weight or a lack of power there, to be honest :D

    You can say it is not a "true dual sport" because it has a trellis frame and thus
    a huge turning circle or that it is a modified supermoto bike ( both claims are true )
    but it remains the best dual sport bike for the real world that money can buy in 2013.


    So it is difficult to conclude that the world of dual sport bikes has become less wonderful
    across the board, though some of the Japanese bikes might indeed be heavy and lack power,
    especially compared to the old days when 2-strokes ruled the earth. The Japanese will probably
    keep making the same old stuff ( WR250R notwithstanding ) as long as people keep buying it, so
    vote with your wallet if you want things to change.



    .
    #7
  8. Beezer

    Beezer Long timer

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    power used to be measured at the crank... not the rear wheel. as for weight... ??? better scales?? fewer lies??? :rofl no, I think you are right about the wt
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  9. CJBDRdude

    CJBDRdude Dirtyrider

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    Hanging onto my 2000 KTM LC4 640.. a slight bit on the heavy side, but not compared to a Jap counterpart, and more ponies than anyone will ever need!
    #9
  10. elsalvadorklr

    elsalvadorklr southern xr rider

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    think this for a second

    old school is crude, brute power maybe

    today or modern bikes are simply more refined and a more complete package...

    not in all cases but I can remember some old school bikes that scared the hell out of me when I was a kid

    cr250 quads

    kx500s

    those yamaha its...

    etc...even the klrs and drs had more power when they first came out, like someone else said emission and more bean counters
    #10
  11. It'sNotTheBike

    It'sNotTheBike Banned

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    KTM has them and has been testing such engines for several years.

    According to informed sources the engines can meet current emissions
    standards.

    When street legal bikes with such engines become available, what we expect in terms
    of power and weight in a bike will change dramatically.

    I can't wait !
    #11
  12. elsalvadorklr

    elsalvadorklr southern xr rider

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    the enduro or adventure model?
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  13. Velociraptor

    Velociraptor TrackBum

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    My 2009 KTM 690r is the truest dual sport I have ever owned. Does fine on the highway and rips in the dirt. Lots of power. Love it.
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  14. Canuman

    Canuman Crusty & Unobliging

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    KTM is not the only developer of "green" 2T machines. If they can get off the ground, they will be very exciting indeed.

    #14
  15. CA Stu

    CA Stu Steer with your face! Super Moderator

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    Is this premise really accurate?

    If it is, I think that the weight / power aspect may be attributed to the fact that the early dual sports were more off-road oriented, with a few owners being silly enough to ride their "enduros" on the road, versus today the dual sport market of motorcycle manufacturers gravitating more towards "Adventure riding", which seems to incorporate far longer highway jaunts to get to the dirt...

    Anyway, my 99 KLR is 10 times better both on and off road than my 76 XT500 ever was, and my 07 Super Enduro will rip the lungs out of either of those machines, on or off road, and my 08 TE 610 will leave them both for dead up a rocky / sandy gnarly trail.

    I like the way the dual sport market is going.

    More choices, more specialization means that a person can find what they think is the ideal dual sport machine for their style of riding.
    The potential WR250R buyer won't have the same riding goals as the potential F800GS buyer, and that is good for both the consumer and the manufacturer, I reckon.

    Pure numbers alone (neither weight nor peak horsepower) don't mean a whole lot in the real world, I reckon. :D

    Thanks
    CA Stu

    PS Give me a great suspension over more horsepower every time. :thumb
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  16. Canuman

    Canuman Crusty & Unobliging

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    Here we have a rider that's got some seat time and can be a well-known prick when he wants. I think his assessment is accurate. Nicely said.

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  17. WARRIORPRINCEJJ

    WARRIORPRINCEJJ Not in the clique...

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    I was thinkin' these exact same thoughts, earlier, but just couldn't express them as efficiently and eloquently...


    .
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  18. CJBDRdude

    CJBDRdude Dirtyrider

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    Enduro model
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  19. elsalvadorklr

    elsalvadorklr southern xr rider

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    PS Give me a great suspension over more horsepower every time. :thumb[/QUOTE]

    EXACTLY!

    people rave about power...

    I might add that suspension and brakes is what make a bike go fast, ESPECIALLY an offroad bike...

    anyways dualposrts today kick ass and Im still a firm beleiver in that there is no better value, as a dualsport and world traveller than a KLR650...you just cant find it...

    08 and up models with the windscreen and better road manners for touring the world you just cant beat it...Ive tried...and seen people try..Ive also seen people go back to a klr when decided to cross borders a lot.

    anyways

    flame on:D
    #19
  20. elsalvadorklr

    elsalvadorklr southern xr rider

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    yup they are less bulky than the adventure for sure...

    I ride an xr600...and we used to ride with full suited adventure guys...and they suffered...I dont mean this in a bad way, but just like I suffer when riding with husky guys and wr450 guys and the whole ktm crowd on my bike...the bigger guys suffer with my ccd type bikes...

    its just the way it is...

    no power will ever get you out of a tight steep hill...its the weight and the bulk that kill you...the loads imposed on the terrain and the way the bike responds...ive seen it a million times...

    big bikes simply suck going up gnarly stuff...

    notice I say gnarly not just steep or long etc...

    cheers

    ps. I am envious of your hp numbers for sure...ktms are great in that respect and as a builder boast the best power to weight specs than anybody else, at least production model wise...and I have no issues accepting that:D
    #20