True Dualsports getting heavier and less powerful?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by mikem9, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. elsalvadorklr

    elsalvadorklr southern xr rider

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,154
    Location:
    Columbus, GA
    what a bunch of bull...the only thing for sure is the closemindedness and such FACT statements like above...

    only true 50/50 dualsport is one model bike made by suzuki? thats over 20 years old...

    man...we got to travel more and see more before saying stuff like that...

    lastly it makes me LAUGH so much when somebody on such a similar bike class says something like my dr is eons better than your klr, or my klr is better than your xrl...they all are OK, and suck more at one thing than the other!

    geeze guys...get a grip

    I agree with the posts maybe 5 or 6 up that say that its not the WEIGHT so much that has been gained, but bikes nowadays are more refined and purpose built...

    the weight if in fact it has been gained has been offset for the most part with better power and better brakes...

    there are only a few old school bikes out ther(yes to the xt and tt of old) that are as light or lighter than a similiar ccd bike today.

    anyways

    have a hoot guys
    #81
  2. Duken4evr

    Duken4evr Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2011
    Oddometer:
    360
    Location:
    Parker, CO
    I think we actually have a greater choice in dual sports than ever before. The Japanese are doing more or less the same thing making a range of good affordable durable bikes that are not cutting edge. Yamaha took it further with their excellent WR250R and of course we Americans want more in the form of a 450 model. The Euro manufacturers have taken the lead, selling durable cool bikes like the new Husky Terra that are a cut above Japan's dual sport offerings and on up to KTM and Husky selling racing bikes made street legal. I am old enough to remember the bad old days of 2 strokes with points ignition. Those were grim times. We have it a lot better now.

    The venerable DRZ400S is an interesting bike, beaten lightly over the head with the Japanese dual sport club (please Japan, throw that away!) but sharing the same basic engine, chassis and fully adjustable cartridge suspension as the off road only "E" model, which may not be a cutting edge racer, but is an excellent serious trail bike. A firmed up "S" model DRZ can be ridden on any off road terrain at a good "C" to "B" rider's pace. Had one for 8 years and wound up using it as a pure dirt bike, it was that decent. Really liked the modded forks on my DRZ, reminded me of the excellent forks on the '87 CR250 I had. They were great off road forks, especially in the gnarly rocky rooty stuff. Slapper landings did not sting. They did not bottom, they just worked. Same with the modded shock which had a Race Tech gold valve kit. The engine in the DRZ is a gem too, especially after adding some relatively easy power up mods (cams, carb, pipe, big bore). Adding a full exhaust with just the off road bike's cams and carb makes a huge difference. A very sweet punchy midrange oriented hooked up powerband and mid 40's hp results.

    A 6 speed DRZ 400 with "E" model cams and FI with a bore increase does not exist, but it could and that would be cool. It would be nice if Japan could just take it a little further. They don't have to match KTM on the cool front, just improve on the rugged stuff they have now. The DRZ 400 is an old design but a good design. Time for a mild update. It is a little frustrating that Suzuki does not sell the DRZ with proper springs and firmer valving, and that they dumbed down the cams and especially the carb. The good parts needed are already there. Does it really cost more to just do it right?

    15K miles on my '02 DRZ 400 mostly off road, and the head was never off it (except for my power increase mods), valves never needed adjustment after original bed in. The DRZ was durable, the mod money I spent on it for the Yosh full exhaust, cams, suspension revalve/srpring and carb added up to a savings in the end, as I enjoyed it or 8 years. Put that bike through tortorous hell riding with KTMs and WRs and the like. It never flinched. It did manage to bruise a few egos along the way though. Do not underestimate a well ridden and modded DRZ400. The DRZ was good to me in the end, too, it sold for the $2,650 asking price in 2 days. The buyer recognized it was a very well maintained and set up bike, rode a fat wheelie past my house, came back and said SOLD! :clap

    I have a plated '10 'Berg FE450 now and love it, but still have a soft spot for the DRZ. My overall speeds have not changed, it is just less work to attain them on the new lighter bike, which, believe it or not, has an engine that feels not a lot different than my modded DRZ. Just take the whole DRZ curve and lift it 10% but keep the smooth punchy hooked up character and ice that cake with a truly wide ratio 6 speed trans (granny 1st and easy 65 mph cruising in 6th) and spot on crisp fuel injected response. The 'Berg powerplant is damn near perfect :) The new bike seems to have a well put together engine too, but I have no illusions it will prove to be the unbreakable anvil the DRZ was.

    A few shots of my now sold but not forgotton DRZ, being ridden in real off road situations.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Yep, that is me on the DRZ, halfway down Radical Hill, going to say hi to the mountain goats :)

    [​IMG]
    #82
  3. CJBDRdude

    CJBDRdude Dirtyrider

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Oddometer:
    279
    Location:
    Upstate NY.. rockin it in Valatie!!!

    Maybe the DR & XR are 'slightly different shades of the same bike' in your opinion but not mine. I've ridden (not owned) a Honda XR650 and its a lot more offroad than a DR 650 will ever be - FACT..like it or not! They may be similar in some areas, but ride them back to back..No WAY! and I'm a Suzuki guy! Its time to bring the old girl(DR 650) up to more modern standards(at least half way). No one one is telling you not to like your DR..Hell I liked mine ok, until I found theres better out there(For what I do).
    #83
  4. Adv Grifter

    Adv Grifter on the road o'dreams

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Oddometer:
    6,128
    Location:
    Passing ADV Stalkers in California
    The BMW's are pretty good "true" dual sports, so I would not include BMW's on your above list. I'm talking about the original F650 Dakar's, G650's, X Challenge and such.

    The F and G BMW's are about 60 lbs. heavier than a DR650. The X Challenge is the same dry weight (or close?) BMW's are good on pavement but the DR has the advantage over BMW's off road, in my experience.

    I partly agree ... but for mild dual sport off road riding ... the DR650 does very well with reasonable set up.

    I've made several trips to Baja on my DR650 and it really surprised me off road. Loaded up with 100 lbs. of gear on one trip ... cut that to 60 lbs. on later trips. Lighter is better (DUH! :D )

    I put over 80K miles on my DL1000 ... made several trips to Copper Canyon and all over Mexico and Baja. Lots of off road (dirt roads) On the Strom you had to choose your off road routes carefully. On the DR ... not so much. But the DR still can't do knarly, steep, rocky, ass-kicker trails like Cry Baby Canyon (Baja) or AA Enduro level single track.

    I've re-done my suspension on my DR ... helps a lot. Overall the DR650 with $1000 of mods, is IMHO, the best ADV travel bike on the market today; a true dual sport. :beer
    #84
  5. CJBDRdude

    CJBDRdude Dirtyrider

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Oddometer:
    279
    Location:
    Upstate NY.. rockin it in Valatie!!!
    I agree with your DRZ400 comments. Great bike that is almost indestructable!! Proven design that will run forever.. But why?? Has Suzuki refused to take some of the DRZ's good traits and incorporate them into the 650 model?? Its a shame as the DR 650 is what..the same bike since 1996? I guess thats ok if you buy one(its still not an outdated model in 2013 lol!) But for guys like me, I wouldn't look at 20 year old technology and spend $$ on it when there is so much better options available.
    #85
  6. CJBDRdude

    CJBDRdude Dirtyrider

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Oddometer:
    279
    Location:
    Upstate NY.. rockin it in Valatie!!!
    Yup... This has been my point right along! Thank you. I've ridden my DR650 in some real gnarly stuff and we were not happy lol! But do what I've seen quite a few DR650 riders do that are in my neck of the woods - windshield(yuck), big ass saddlebags, 80/20 d/s tires, more lighting, .. viola... V strom lol!!! I love my V Strom ..The Strom makes great Street bike thats all..
    #86
  7. Adv Grifter

    Adv Grifter on the road o'dreams

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Oddometer:
    6,128
    Location:
    Passing ADV Stalkers in California
    Great and accurate comments on the DRZ! And really great pics! Wow, that radical downhill is Hair ball!

    I owned an '01 DRZ400E. Great bike, rode it 3.5 years. Great trail bike ... but not a great road bike. Low gearing, no ability to carry gear. The DRZ400 S is better ... but the E model is SO MUCH nicer to ride. As you pointed out (and few seem to realize) the E and S models are very different ... and about 30 lbs. weight diff.
    Cheers! :clap
    #87
  8. acesandeights

    acesandeights Asperger

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,094
    Location:
    So. Oregon
    This isn't about liking or disliking my bike. I've owned and ridden enough to know it's not my style to be infatuated by a brand or model. I've ridden the two also and just stated my experience is different than yours. I've actually owned or ridden a number of Japanese MX bikes and some Euro bikes. I've also owned and ridden sport bikes and cruisers. I didn't state my opinions as "FACTS" because they are opinions. Your FACT is actually your opinion. Seems you don't realize that.
    #88
  9. CJBDRdude

    CJBDRdude Dirtyrider

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Oddometer:
    279
    Location:
    Upstate NY.. rockin it in Valatie!!!
    So okay..I've owned many and ridden many different types/brands as well. Street, dirt whatever.. I realize after owning a DR650..its a FACT that its not as much an offroad bike as a Honda XR650. Ride them one after another, you'll obviously see the difference, especially if you've had so much experience on bikes yourself!!!!!
    #89
  10. tHEtREV

    tHEtREV Captain Awesome

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    7,952
    Location:
    Middle Park, Brisbane, Australia
    Are you high?

    How could a Suzuki be better than a Kawasaki?

    Years ago my brother had a KX125 and his mate had a PE175 and the KX was better in every way except for 5 or 10Kph top speed.

    The PE was always breaking down and everyone but the PE owner agreed that the KX was better in most areas.

    So I find it hard to swallow that a Suzuki could even be close to a Kawasaki in performance or reliability.
    #90
  11. OrangeYZ

    OrangeYZ Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    Oddometer:
    643
    Location:
    Southern Oregon
    We're talking about KLRs and DRs here, let's pretend that word doesn't exist :rofl


    On road: the DL650 (that's the V-Strom) has a 6 speed, FI V-twin that puts out around 60 or 70 hp, compared to the 5 speed KLR around 35-40 hp. Both of them have reputations of lasting 50,000-100,000 miles, though one of them needs to be rewired and have a doohickey replaced.

    Off road: KLR650, 430lbs, 8.5" ground clearance. DR650, 366lbs, 10" ground clearance.

    KLR is better on road than a V-Strom, and better off road than a DR? That's crazy talk.
    #91
  12. tHEtREV

    tHEtREV Captain Awesome

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    7,952
    Location:
    Middle Park, Brisbane, Australia
    Because the KLR is a Kawasaki it is clearly going to be better than a Suzuki, because the Suzuki is just a Suzuki.

    It's not just the PE that was crap, I had TS125 that never ran right as well.

    So Kawasakis must be better than Suzukis.
    #92
  13. joexr

    joexr Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,773
    Location:
    You're Mama
    Ok , I knew you were either crazy or sarcastic.:rofl Werent you ? And I wasnt implying anything about Kawasakis.
    #93
  14. CJBDRdude

    CJBDRdude Dirtyrider

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Oddometer:
    279
    Location:
    Upstate NY.. rockin it in Valatie!!!
    Thats the most ridicous crap I've ever heard on here! :rofl I've owned kawis that have been nothing but trouble. We're talking about current motorcycles , not something made in 1974. Some guys like their DRs, some their KLRs and some their V-Stroms... Where did old PEs and Kawis fir into this LMAO!!!:lol3
    #94
  15. Cruz

    Cruz Lost but laughing.

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2008
    Oddometer:
    6,320
    Location:
    Northside Brisbane, Qld Australia
    Gees Trev, how did you get people to take you seriously? :1drink
    #95
  16. tHEtREV

    tHEtREV Captain Awesome

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    7,952
    Location:
    Middle Park, Brisbane, Australia
    It's a valid argument.

    People on here use the same logic when they say KTMs are fragile, husqvarnas brake down all the time or husabergs spontaneously explode.

    Kawasakis are awesome, Suzukis not so much...
    #96
  17. tokyoklahoma

    tokyoklahoma 75%has been 25%wanabe

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2011
    Oddometer:
    1,910
    Location:
    N.W. Arkansas
    Crazy and sarcastic describes most inmates. :D:freaky:D
    #97
  18. Ginger Beard

    Ginger Beard I have no soul

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Oddometer:
    6,951
    Location:
    Sunny Northern Cuba (aka: South Florida)
    Is this new ?!! :eek1
    #98
  19. acesandeights

    acesandeights Asperger

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,094
    Location:
    So. Oregon
    Cool. I get it. Your experience leads to FACTS people should accept; whereas for everyone else, experience leads to opinions to share.
    #99
  20. Billy Beer

    Billy Beer Adventurer

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Oddometer:
    22
    Location:
    H2Oloo Ontario Canada
    Gents

    Brand aside, the basic point here is correct. By my definition the perfect adventure dual sport still is just an illusion! Imagine if you will a descent single cylinder with reliable EFI comfortably equipped with 500 to 700cc, 60HP, and a price tag in the range of either a dr650 or a klr560. Weight under 300lbs wet.
    I think if it existed plenty would come, but alas not enough to make it profitable I suspect.

    sad but true.

    Billybeer