True Dualsports getting heavier and less powerful?

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by mikem9, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. Adv Grifter

    Adv Grifter on the road o'dreams

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Oddometer:
    6,128
    Location:
    Passing ADV Stalkers in California
    You should really lay off the BLATANT TROLLING. Not well disguised at all.
  2. Adv Grifter

    Adv Grifter on the road o'dreams

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Oddometer:
    6,128
    Location:
    Passing ADV Stalkers in California
    DON'T FEED THIS TROLL. Add to your Ignore list. TROLL!
  3. Off the grid

    Off the grid Seeker of the Unf

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Oddometer:
    11,706
    Location:
    That buzzing in your earhole, NorCal.
    I'd love to see 2-strokes come back with regularity. The simplicity and power they generate is amazing.

    Alas, with emissions regulations the way they are and getting more restrictive all the time I can't imagine that happening. :cry
  4. CJBDRdude

    CJBDRdude Dirtyrider

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Oddometer:
    280
    Location:
    Upstate NY.. rockin it in Valatie!!!

    Look - I'm not trying to argue with you. You Love your DR650 ..I get it! I'm saying try riding both your DR and if you can hop on a Honda XR650. You'll find these are intended to be used for the same purpose, but the Honda is just that much better in the offroad element. I'm with you, I like my Suzukis, but whats real is real. If you think I'm wrong try both, you'll agree.
  5. Albie

    Albie Kool Aid poisoner

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Oddometer:
    10,214
    Location:
    NWA
    Actually I have ridden both and I've found BOTH to be equally lacking. :dunno

    The big difference is the fact that the XR's run really hot and you have to change the oil more often. That's why I went with the DR. Neither bike is a great dual sport. Both are just adequate dual sports.
  6. acesandeights

    acesandeights Asperger

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,125
    Location:
    So. Oregon
    Again, this isn't about the bike I currently own. The only thing I love is my wife and kids. Inanimate objects are just that. I know enough to know I'll own another bike soon enough (this is my first Suzuki (owned) if that matters). But I don't know why you think I haven't ridden both and came to my own conclusion (I think I stated as much). Your FACT (as you put it) isn't mine. That's all. I've ridden an XR650R, XR650L and a DR650 and don't accept what you say as fact, that's all. You seem to discount other opinions and state yours as fact. Your opinion is probably much like your asshole. It's yours and it stinks. No big deal. You probably think the same of mine. If you're ever out this way I'll buy the pizza and beer and let you ride my DR and you can tell me how it doesn't compare to the XR you rode and we'll both go our separate ways and be happy with whatever we're riding at the time. No biggie.
  7. acesandeights

    acesandeights Asperger

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,125
    Location:
    So. Oregon
    +1
  8. Sierra Thumper

    Sierra Thumper Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2012
    Oddometer:
    641
    Some of your numbers are skewed to start with....honda quit quoting hp numbers years ago because it wasn't in their best interest to tout them when the euro bikes were starting to far out class them in hp. The XR650L, which has the NX650 motor in it, put out 44hp at the crank, and more torque than the XL600...to go along with the extra weight of electric start. But....it's basically an XR600 with lights and electric start, plus the XR600's suspension and disc brakes front and rear. As a dirt bike overall its light years ahead of the XL600...except its 25lbs heavier. The magic button comes at a price :lol3

    The same really applies to all those examples, the XT is a little heavier, but has electric start, and again way better suspension, plus more power.

    The XR250L has 28 CRANK hp compared to the CRF250L which has about 20 rear wheel hp, the power is probably a wash on a dyno, but the CRF has fuel injection (very sweet) and has 20 years of advancement in all other area's over the XR250L. But again, it has gained some lbs in the process, which is a shame.

    Like some other guys have said, overall now its better than ever for owning awesome dualsports, and you can pretty much pick your poison....the only trouble is the euro bikes are where the performance is now, and they cost quite abit more than we use to pay for the japanese dual sports. But for that money you get a bike that will BLOW away any of the "oldies" in every department :wink:

    Sometimes the good old days and good old "bikes" are only as good as a persons imagination. Old bike memories are like a fine wine.....they just get better over time :lol3

    NOW is the heyday of the dualsport, just not from japan :evil
  9. CJBDRdude

    CJBDRdude Dirtyrider

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Oddometer:
    280
    Location:
    Upstate NY.. rockin it in Valatie!!!
    No I just discount your opinion as yours comes across very bias toward the DR650 only. Thats ok - I don't ride either a DR anymore or an XR650. I got smart and bought a KTM, maybe you should do the same . I'm not interested in your pizza, beer, or your how your ass stinks. You seem to be the one with a problem here and thats a FACT!
  10. acesandeights

    acesandeights Asperger

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,125
    Location:
    So. Oregon
    Alright. I extended the hand of friendship, beer and pizza, and riding (which is about all I need to like someone), you rejected it...just like you reject:

    The XR650L has the same size engine, the same hp, the same size forks, both have 5-speeds, the XR is 20 lbs less weight (part of that may be due to the wet weights including fuel and oil (more capacity of the DR)), the XR is taller (higher center of gravity), and the XR has 2.5" greater ground clearance (the seat height is the also 2.5" higher than the DR). Seems the specs of the XR are the same as the DR, except it appears the XR is a DR that's been raised 2.5" (seat height and ground clearance), and the XR has 11" rear wheel travel versus the DR 10.2 (over 3/4" difference!!!, where is that 2.5" of the ground/seat height difference???).

    I thought about a KTM, and I may buy one at some point, but right now they don't offer what I'm looking for (gotta be air/oil cooled :D ) .
  11. Adv Grifter

    Adv Grifter on the road o'dreams

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Oddometer:
    6,128
    Location:
    Passing ADV Stalkers in California
    Funny ... you never specify WHICH Honda you're referring to ... the XR650L or the XR650R. Huge difference between the two.

    I bought a NEW XR650L in '92 (were you riding yet?) and never got on well with it doing organized dual sport rides, Baja and pretty much a mix of everything. I found the bike harsh, top heavy, hard to tune and slow. (stock) On several Baja rides I saw some interesting failures with the XR650L (not my machine) when ridden hard. First off ... they run very HOT, use oil when pushed. If the oil gets low ... say goodnight. And with just a 12 lbs. pack on the rear ... the sub frame bends (or cracks). The kicker is the big ugly battery box ... which I witnessed breaking off in Bahia de Los Angeles. Tore out all the wires ... took two day to get that bike going.

    I rode a XR650L "Special" that Dave Bertram (CEO of Cycle Gear) built. No expense spared. Better all the way round but still not suited to me at all. I sold off my new XR650L in less than a year. A modified DR650 is worlds better than the XR650L off road ... and turns and handles better and is way better on the pavement.

    The XR650R is a different animal ... and as most Baja fans will know ... has lots of Baja 1000 trophies to it's name. It was built as a race bike, not street legal. Many many friends owned these bikes and most converted them to Street legal. I've ridden a few of them in varied conditions and like them fine. Way better than even a modified DR650 off road. On the street?
    Not great. But crossing the Baja desert at 70 mph the XR650R is a rocking machine ... a well set up one is impressive.

    The XR650R guys I ride with did the full Precision Concepts suspension treatment. Huge improvement over stock. P-C handled suspension work for Team Honda on all the Baja bikes ... and still do.

    But as an all round true dual sport the DR650 is still better. WHY? You can't really travel on a XR650R . No real sub frame so panniers are a problem. It's is after all, a real dirt bike. ... and then you've got that pesky kick start thing. On long road trips the XR650R is wanting ... and I rode with totally tricked out ones. But off road ... truly impressive for such a heavy bike.

    KTM's, Husabergs, Huskies and Beta's are in a different league off road ... a step up from the XR650R, especially in tighter, more technical conditions.
    The XR650R is a high speed desert racer, not a single track weapon.

    But the Euro bikes don't make the best dual sport travel bikes ... fun as they are to ride.
  12. CJBDRdude

    CJBDRdude Dirtyrider

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2006
    Oddometer:
    280
    Location:
    Upstate NY.. rockin it in Valatie!!!
    Just because specs are similar, doesn't make them 'behave' similar. (again..my point) Both the DR & XR are more D/S oriented than my KTM.(read: The KTM is more dirt bias). And I personally prefer liquid cooling, though air cooling has its benefits> no punctured rads out in the middle of nowhere. :eek1 The DR though lacks a kick starter and left me stranded more than once(electrical problems), so I had my fun on 'her' but didn't look back after selling it. Like you I'm not brand crazy, but right now KTM fits my bill. Next year may be a different story:D
  13. tHEtREV

    tHEtREV Captain Awesome

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    8,066
    Location:
    Middle Park, Brisbane, Australia
    Not trolling, just telling the truth...

    Every Suzuki I have ever owned has been a problem, every Kawasaki has been great.

    I have ridden with a lot of Suzukis that have had problems on the trail, rarely a Kawasaki.

    Not every Suzuki I have ridden with has had problems but I have seen enough to stay away from them, and not every Kawasaki is dead reliable.

    I had a mate with a KLX400 that gave him no end of trouble, and that turned him of Kawasakis, but I'll happily get another one as soon as I can afford to go green again.
  14. Hillbilly501

    Hillbilly501 Ultra n00b

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2010
    Oddometer:
    172
    Location:
    Drinking from the firehose in Brisbane, Australia
    :rofl
  15. joexr

    joexr Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,773
    Location:
    You're Mama
    This whole thread has turned into my bike is better than yours because it suits me better.
  16. Ginger Beard

    Ginger Beard I have no soul

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Oddometer:
    7,029
    Location:
    Sunny Northern Cuba (aka: South Florida)

    Hey I see what you did there!! :patch
  17. elsalvadorklr

    elsalvadorklr southern xr rider

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,154
    Location:
    Columbus, GA
    well I agree 100% with this post at least...

    see we all have some truths to tell and opinions...they all count...experience plays a big part here...
    I rode a dr650 once...the guy put on a way big spring on the rear and I just couldnt get any traction...

    he rode 2 up with his wife but was too damn lazy to adjust sag when on dualsports rides...so he would boing around all over the place

    the only time I have seen an xrl and dr650 on the same ride(they are not popular bikes down here at all, and rare) its all street legal betas, ktms, and bergs...STREET LEGAL.

    anyways I agree that out of the klr650, dr650, and xr650l, the better 50/50 is in fact the dr650 straight out of the box...THEY ALL SUCK out of the box, and they ALL need tweaking to your riding style, be it road, dualsport or just offroad...

    anyways

    as always good to see some guys from other forums chime in with real experience...it makes all the bashing and bikcering more tolerant! jajajaja
  18. Albie

    Albie Kool Aid poisoner

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Oddometer:
    10,214
    Location:
    NWA
    I know right. :lol3
  19. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    5,065
    Location:
    Nor Ca.

    Did your friend know that a KLX400 was a rebadged Suzuki drz400?
  20. XDragRacer

    XDragRacer Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,351
    I assumed so; thought the previous post was served up with a generous helping of irony! :rofl