Trump Expected to Reduce the size some Utah National Monuments

Discussion in 'The Rockies – It's all downhill from here...' started by RideFreak, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. RideFreak

    RideFreak Torque Junkie

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Oddometer:
    10,947
    Location:
    Out in the NM Dez somewhere
    #1
  2. Boricua

    Boricua Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Oddometer:
    844
    Location:
    Parker, CO (Suburbia, Generica USA)
    We have a saying back home. One thing is to call the devil, another is seeing it coming. For those who characterize the protection of federal lands by the federal government as a "land grab". Now we could see a have a real land grab by the extraction industries. One that will leave the land forever scarred and devalued for generations to come.

    We can only hope that drillers stay where they are making profits instead of drilling in natural sensitive lands and perpetuating the gas glut in the west.

    Nothing worst than seeing a driller screwing up the land just to cap the wells and go bankrupt leaving a mess for tax payers to clean up.

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
    #2
  3. oldmanb777

    oldmanb777 Just say NO to socialism!

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,677
    Location:
    Centennial,Co./ Grand Lake,Co
    Difficult balance with our over population needing the resources, both recreationally, and natural resources. I think it needs to be watched VERY CAREFULLY, to both enjoy and protect our opportunities.
    Hard to balance for sure!
    #3
    DS Hobo likes this.
  4. Sir Denis Eton-Hogg

    Sir Denis Eton-Hogg Tap into America

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    Oddometer:
    961
    Location:
    Loveland Colorado
    Over population?
    #4
  5. FatChance

    FatChance Road Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Oddometer:
    12,430
    Location:
    On the road
    On the other hand, the majority of the roads and trails accessible with them, there and in much of the west, that are enjoyed by so many "adventure riders" are there only because of the extraction industries. Ironic, no? Next time you ride the White Rim or any of the other popular trails in SE Utah near Bears Ears, give it some thought and consider that the government did not open any access roads and trails in that area to any of the riding you all now enjoy.
    #5
    sieg, SnowMule, Abersouth and 8 others like this.
  6. Boricua

    Boricua Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Oddometer:
    844
    Location:
    Parker, CO (Suburbia, Generica USA)
    That is true. There are many beautiful paved roads in the west that were built specifically to provide access.

    Question here is, how can we all enjoy this without screwing things up?

    Is not the designation of the land that matters, its the management plan. Repudiation of the bears ears proclamation have to reasons. Gas and oil interests and the guy is from the other party. Both political.

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
    #6
    303arborist likes this.
  7. FatChance

    FatChance Road Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Oddometer:
    12,430
    Location:
    On the road
    Name two paved roads that the riders on this forum flock to in SE Utah as their destination.
    #7
    AtomicGeo and OnOff like this.
  8. RideFreak

    RideFreak Torque Junkie

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Oddometer:
    10,947
    Location:
    Out in the NM Dez somewhere
    Apparently it's happened.

    "Trump said former presidents abused the Antiquities Act by putting unnecessarily big chunks of territory off limits to drilling, mining, grazing, road traffic and other activities – a headwind to his plan to ramp up U.S. energy output.

    Trump signed two proclamations after his speech. One would reduce the 1.3 million acre (0.5 million hectare) Bears Ears National Monument, created in 2016 by then-President Barack Obama, to 228,784 acres split into two separate areas.

    The other would cut to the state’s 1.9 million acre Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument created by President Bill Clinton in 1996 nearly in half, splitting it into three areas."


    I would prefer this route to turning it all back over to the states, I trust the sates even less to do the right thing.
    #8
  9. OnOff

    OnOff Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,576
    Location:
    Salt Lake City - UTAH!
    If the largest concern is regarding mining rights, why not simply make mining illegal in these areas in perpetuity? Allow people who pay taxes on these lands to enjoy these lands but keep them from being mined if that is the issue at hand. I'm guessing its not that simple OR IS IT!?
    #9
    AtomicGeo and jimco like this.
  10. RideFreak

    RideFreak Torque Junkie

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Oddometer:
    10,947
    Location:
    Out in the NM Dez somewhere
    #10
  11. RideFreak

    RideFreak Torque Junkie

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Oddometer:
    10,947
    Location:
    Out in the NM Dez somewhere
    The issue goes way beyond mining.
    #11
  12. OnOff

    OnOff Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,576
    Location:
    Salt Lake City - UTAH!
    If Bears Ears Monument is 1.3 MILLION acres, and 640 acres is 1 square mile, so 1.3 million acres would be 2031.25 square miles
    The state of Delaware is about 1981 square miles or SMALLER than the proposed Bears Ears Monument.

    If Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument 1.9 million acres that is roughly 2968.75 square miles

    The combination of just these 2 designated monuments would be 5000 square miles!

    HOLY SHIT, that is a LOT of land!
    #12
  13. OTB

    OTB Oh fer Chrissakes

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Oddometer:
    12,502
    Location:
    Rio de Las Animas Perdidas
    Parts of it have been set aside for many years, including Natural Bridges, Grand Gulch, Dark Canyon and several smaller wilderness areas.
    #13
    FatChance likes this.
  14. OTB

    OTB Oh fer Chrissakes

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Oddometer:
    12,502
    Location:
    Rio de Las Animas Perdidas
    When do you say enough? I spent a week in parts of the Bears Ears in late September. The quads a razr's have been making a mess. Many don't seem to understand 'Stay The Trail' and it's accelerating. If you can't see that problem, you haven't been there.
    #14
    joe a, mischief and AbeWhat like this.
  15. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,082
    Location:
    Minnesota
    UT 12, Burr Trail, UT 95, Capitol Reef, Arches, Canyonlands, Zion, Bryce, ...
    #15
    jnclem likes this.
  16. Riteris

    Riteris Dessert Runner

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2002
    Oddometer:
    3,814
    Location:
    A place many ADV Riders fear: The Nation's Capital
    The White House said: The goal is greater use of the area for public access to roads, grazing, and active management for things like conservation, removing junipers, hunting, fishing, recreation.

    The grazing thing is what really puts me off. Ranchers seem to be very forceful about keeping others off the land they graze their cattle on.

    I believe Zinke also stated there were no minerals or oil in these areas.

    We shall see.


    Correction: I was informed that they re-drew the map around known mineral and oil deposits outside of the original park areas. This was possibly done to allow for future extraction. (Keep in mind, new technology made fracking economically feasible.) With the advent of newer technology, these parks sources for extraction.

    How much recreation is currently available around current fracking sites?
    #16
    AbeWhat likes this.
  17. RideFreak

    RideFreak Torque Junkie

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Oddometer:
    10,947
    Location:
    Out in the NM Dez somewhere
    I rode one of our riding areas Saturday that I haven't been out to for almost a year. One year of unconstrained atv/utv riding has made a huge impact. Unfortunately we as off road motorcycle riders are lumped into a much more destructive group of users. I'm not saying all ATV/UTV riders are doing this but as subset of the OHV group their tracks and impact is hard to miss.
    #17
  18. RideFreak

    RideFreak Torque Junkie

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Oddometer:
    10,947
    Location:
    Out in the NM Dez somewhere
    The whole area is a great street destination also.
    #18
    kwthom, Blakebird and pinner like this.
  19. OnOff

    OnOff Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,576
    Location:
    Salt Lake City - UTAH!
    The last time I hiked 50 miles of Grand Gulch, Kane Gulch and Bullet Canyon we saw ONE other person during several days. Its rough country to hike and survive. You better know where water sources are and how to utilize them. Many of these areas are off limits to the general population simply because they are terribly out of shape. LOL
    For that matter most Americans probably wouldn't want to hike here because there is NO cell reception. :jack
    https://imageevent.com/peteh/grandgulchbackpacktrip?rotp=7302&

    [​IMG]
    #19
    pratered, joe a, AzMtnThumper and 2 others like this.
  20. Boricua

    Boricua Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Oddometer:
    844
    Location:
    Parker, CO (Suburbia, Generica USA)
    Anything in and around uravan, colorado. Or straddling the state line is either mining or cattle grazing.

    Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
    #20