Trying to import a KTM, finally gave up

Discussion in 'Canada' started by jackr, Jul 22, 2008.

  1. jackr

    jackr 2008 KTM 950 SE

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    I haven't been keeping track of the Canadian Forum for several months so I hope I'm just not repeating what someone else has already posted. Here's my story; Last November I put money down on a KTM 950SE in Seattle. I thought that KTM would post their 2008 bikes on Canada's RIV site before my bike was to arrive in March. After all they did so with the 2007 models. But they did not. I contacted every one I could think of trying to find a way to import the bike. I always got the same answer, if KTM's are not on the RIV list they are not allowed into Canada. As for as I'm concerned this is KTM's way of forcing Canadians to pay more and buy in Canada, and Transport Canada will do nothing to help. In the end I ended up canceling my order for the US bike. Even though I was pissed off at KTM I coughed up paid $3000 more and bought in Canada, I just had to have that bike.

    After waiting four months, yesterday I received an e-mail from the Canadian government regrading my case. Maybe this will clear up some questions or help someone who is trying to import a KTM.



    Dear Mr. Roberge:

    I am writing in response to your correspondence to your Member of Parliament, Ms. Betty Hinton, regarding the importation of a 2008 KTM motorcycle from the United States. The Honourable Lawrence Cannon, Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, has asked me to outline his position on this issue.

    By way of background, I should first mention that the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (MVSA), in effect since 1971, regulates the manufacture and importation of motor vehicles and motor vehicle equipment to reduce the risk of death and injury, and damage to property and the environment.

    The MVSA requires that all vehicles imported into Canada comply with the Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations and associated Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (CMVSSs). However, subsection 7(2) of the MVSA provides an exception whereby vehicles purchased in the United States that are not in full compliance with the CMVSSs may be imported into Canada, provided the vehicles were originally manufactured to comply with all applicable U.S. Federal Safety Standards and can be modified to comply with the CMVSSs. Once modified, the vehicles must be inspected by a designated authority of Transport Canada. In this regard, in 1995, Transport Canada contracted with a private company to establish the Registrar of Imported Vehicles (RIV) program to develop and operate a system of inspection and certification of vehicles imported from the United States.

    The objective of the RIV program is to protect Canadian road users by ensuring that vehicles imported from the United States provide a comparable level of safety to those manufactured for sale in Canada. The federal government has established the RIV program to verify that imported vehicles meet Canadian requirements. Any modifications carried out to bring U.S. vehicles into compliance with Canadian requirements, such as daytime running lamps, immobilizers and bilingual and metric labelling, are to be made before the vehicle is presented for licensing by a province or territory. In order for vehicles to pass inspection, importers must also demonstrate that the vehicles have no outstanding recalls. The program is funded through user fees charged to the importers who choose to purchase vehicles in the United States, rather than being subsidized by Canadian tax dollars.

    I should note that neither Transport Canada nor the RIV has access to the recall information of manufacturers that produce vehicles for the U.S. market. The information in the department’s database relates only to vehicles produced for the Canadian market and originally sold in Canada. In many instances, the Canadian company and the U.S. company are two separate entities and do not share recall information. Therefore, it is important to firmly establish, in a reliable manner, that there are no outstanding recalls on vehicles purchased at the retail level in the United States and imported into Canada. The verification is specific to each particular vehicle and is performed by manufacturers using the Vehicle Identification Number.

    As a convenience to both importers and manufacturers, the RIV posts a List of Vehicles Admissible from the United States on its website at www.riv.ca . The list includes many 2008 model-year vehicles that are admissible for importation. It is the manufacturers’ responsibility to certify that vehicles comply with Canadian safety standards or to certify that the vehicles can be modified to meet these standards. The manufacturers are also responsible for providing and updating the admissibility information. I should emphasize that the list is not mandated by law; rather, it is an administrative tool meant to assist in the processing of imported vehicles. Although manufacturers are not obligated to submit admissibility information, most do so voluntarily, since otherwise, they would have to deal with importers on an individual basis.

    According to the information available to Transport Canada, I understand that KTM is unable to guarantee that its U.S.-manufactured vehicles comply with the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards 108, Lamps, Reflective Devices, and Associated Equipment, and 123, Motorcycle Controls and Display. These standards, which are identical in Canada and the United States, were met in KTM vehicles sold in Canada following a vehicle recall. No comparable recall was issued in the United States.

    For additional details regarding the motorcycle that you wish to import, I would invite you to contact Mr. Mike Russo, Certification Homologation Production Line Manager, KTM Canada, at the following coordinates:

    KTM Canada
    1119 Milan Avenue
    Amherst OH 44001
    U.S.A.

    Although KTM vehicles are not, for the reason outlined above, included in the RIV’s List of Vehicles Admissible from the United States, if the manufacturer is able to provide you with a letter certifying that your vehicle was, or can be, modified to comply with the CMVSSs, as well as a letter verifying that there are no outstanding recalls, Transport Canada will permit the importation of the motorcycle into Canada.

    I trust that the foregoing will be of assistance. Again, thank you for writing.

    Yours truly,


    Andrew Walasek
    Senior Special Assistant


    c.c. Office of Ms. Betty Hinton, M.P.
    #1
  2. Corbeau

    Corbeau Been here awhile

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    That's odd, because TC's recall database doesn't show anything for KTMs in 2008... :confused

    Anyway, it's an interesting story. Get in touch with me, if you please, as I'm a reporter for the Ottawa Citizen and I know a good business story when I see one...
    jfbertrand AT grandcorbeau DOT com

    Thanks.
    #2
  3. alphajory

    alphajory Been here awhile

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    if you look at the riv site you will notice that there are more bikes that are not on the list each year. KTM is only one of the companies that decided not to place their bikes on the list.

    I tried to get an 08 as well and went through the ktm chanels to no avail. i had the dealer in the US try as well since he sold several bikes to canada in the past year but they were unable to get the KTM to move on there position.

    to further add to the frusration, there is no change between the 07 and 08 bikes.

    but you can import and drive a left hand drive vehicle and we are worried about stadardized lights and reflectors on bikes? [​IMG]
    #3
  4. kalahari-k

    kalahari-k Kalahari-K

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    Thanks for the info., Jakr. It is unfortunate that KTM arbitrarily protects higher Canadian prices this way. It really annoys consumers. Some walk away from the product altogether, but many of those who still associate with KTM probably disrespect their Canadian KTM dealers. KTM Canada appears to need subsidisation, which suggests they are second rate. Who wants to buy a bike from an unconfident, defensive organisation?
    #4
  5. Steve G.

    Steve G. Long timer

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    Transport Canada, and especially RIV are in this case just information collectors, and distributors. The bad guy here is KTM, who are playing the game to protect Cdn dealers, and keep prices artificially high for 2008 KTM's. It's our decision whether or not to submit to this underhanded move. It sounds like you ended up buying a Cdn model at the inflated price, so their new system has worked with you.
    I'm glad you have your new bike and I hope it works well for you. But as long as you support this kind of thing, they will continue it.
    I will choose not to buy from a Cdn dealer unless they get close to US pricing. I'm in the market for a new bike, and am studying the situation, as it's changing very quickly.
    Steve
    #5
  6. tingavert

    tingavert Adventurer

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    Nothing changed in more than 3 years.
    Let's boycott KTM in Canada!
    nahhh useless. You can see yourself how many ktm are around, compared to bmws.... and now even the 800 XC is here.
    #6
  7. adiablolex

    adiablolex Lost again

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    just because the bike is not in the admisability list doesn't mean that you can't import it.
    When we imported an '09Adventure with a friend we tried everything and didn't work only to be bailed out by KTM NA.
    They suggested we use an importer that takes the responsibility of the vehicle safety here's the post about it:
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12493315&postcount=68

    again, KTM's choice not to make '08 and newer models available for import has more to do with red tape than with trying to repel buyers....:deal
    #7
  8. homeontherange

    homeontherange Ochlophobiac

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    I imported a used KTM from the US last year. KTMNA wouldn't answer my (and the previous owners) request for a recall letter, but RIV accepted a US dealer printout showing there were no recalls outstanding.
    #8
  9. adiablolex

    adiablolex Lost again

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    ...and that's all you need, a print out from a dealer with the VIN on it stating no safety recalls :freaky

    I can't believe some people go to such extremes for a simple letter...
    #9
  10. HighScore

    HighScore No More, all done.

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    I suggest that if KTM won't comply with submitting to TC and RIV, then you should boycott KTM entirely.
    Refuse to buy In Canada at an inflated price.
    Don't play into their games.
    Nothing speaks louder than a sale walking out the door, especially if the buyer knows he's being screwed over.
    #10
  11. DaveBall

    DaveBall Long timer

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    There is the whole problem. Everyone should not only boycott the manufacturers that artificially increase the prices on their goods, but should also send a nicely worded letter to the actual manufacturer, the importer/distributor and the local dealer. Spelling out exactly what you wanted to purchase, the local dealer pricing, the pricing in the U.S. (or wherever it is you want to buy it from) and show the difference in pricing. And explain to them that they just lost a sale, and possibly any aftermarket service, because of it. Also tell them that the letter is also being published on the internet. Hell, maybe we can have a subfolder created on here to post just the letters and any responses in.

    If enough people did this, maybe, just maybe, the manufacturer would listen and contact the Canadian importer/distributor about the price gouging that is going on. The parent company has to be involved in this process. Let them know that we are not happy with their Canadian representatives.

    If nothing else, it would give us all more information about the problems encountered.
    #11
  12. tingavert

    tingavert Adventurer

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    I've just printed out this thread and i' m going to mail it to the main office in austria and let ktm na know. I' m really considering boycotting also because they are limiting the way you can contact them (e.g. No email). Anyone knows a good importer?
    #12
  13. Witness

    Witness Me

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    My brother was able to import a bike from a dealer in Wisconsin.

    He received a letter from KTM which was the key.

    A few other minor hoops to go through and it was done.

    I can't give you all of the details, but can tell you that it is possible.
    #13
  14. adiablolex

    adiablolex Lost again

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    try www.miac.com
    #14
  15. seekeronsaltspring

    seekeronsaltspring Crazy David

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    Have it sent in parts.
    #15
  16. DaveBall

    DaveBall Long timer

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    Back in the late 60s and early 70s, a friend and I did that with Jag XKEs. Took them apart in a rented garage in Bellingham, brought them across as parts and reassembled in Vancouver. Made enough money to put ourselves thru University and then some. They were pretty cheap back then. Wish I had kept one for myself.
    #16
  17. tingavert

    tingavert Adventurer

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    But you need a letter of compliance if the bike is not on the RIV list right?
    #17
  18. tingavert

    tingavert Adventurer

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    Was your bike on the RIV list?
    #18
  19. tingavert

    tingavert Adventurer

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    Dear Sir/Madam,
    I couldn’t find any answer for my problem ( that I have to admit is quite singular) on your website and I hope you could help me to solve it.
    I’d like to buy a motorcycle in California, driving from coast to coast and importing it in Ontario.
    The make is KTM and the model is 990 Adventure, year 2010. I’ve contacted RIV and they confirmed that unfortunately it’s not listed in the admissible vehicle list (the list stop at the 2007 model) but they suggested to call TC because the list could not be up to date. Also I’ve contacted the CBSA and they suggested to call TC because it didn’t make sense to them, that a motorcycle sold in the USA (and Canada) could not be imported here from the USA. CBSA underlined the fact that if the motorcycle bears a statement of compliance, then it should be possible to import it and most probably it’s the manufacturer that forgot to report you to include the motorcycle in the list.
    To me it seems odds that KTM, with only one factory in the world (in Austria) would sell two different models for the North American market.
    Could you please advise me on the steps to take in order to verify why it cannot be imported?


    The explanation or technical data on why a vehicle is not certified for Canada by the manufacturer can only be obtained from the said manufacturer. The safety standards that the specific class of vehicle must meet are the same for all manufacturers. The ability to prove that a vehicle can comply to our standards is the responsibility of the manufacturer. If they wish they can submit a list of US compliant vehicles that they are prepared to certify as also being Canadian Compliant to Transport Canada. Upon review and approval these vehicles can be added to our list of vehicles admissible from the United States, making the importation process easier. The information we receive from the manufacturers on US certified vehicles is strictly done on a volunteer basis and is a tool only, to be used by the importer and administered for us by the Registrar of Imported Vehicles.

    OK it's better to be more explicit!

    Thank you very much for your prompt answer.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    As you mentioned a vehicle that is on the list of vehicles admissible from the United States it's easier to import. This doesn't imply that a vehicle that it's not on the list cannot be imported. <o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Also, on Transport Canada website (http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/safevehicles/importation/usa/vafus/list2/menu.htm) it's staten that:<o:p></o:p>
    "TRANSPORT CANADA AND THE REGISTRAR OF IMPORTED VEHICLES (RIV) CANNOT GUARANTEE THE ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS LIST (SUBJECT TO CHANGE WITHOUT NOTICE)."<o:p></o:p>
    And<o:p></o:p>
    "VERIFY ADMISSIBILITY OF YOUR VEHICLE BEFORE YOU PURCHASE AT RETAIL LEVEL FROM THE UNITED STATES."
    And<o:p></o:p>
    "ITS ACCURACY CANNOT BE GUARANTEED, NOR CAN A GUARANTEE THAT ANY VEHICLE DEEMED ADMISSIBLE CAN BE SUCCESSFULLY MODIFIED TO MEET CANADIAN REQUIREMENTS"<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Moreover given the fact that on CBSA website ( http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5048-eng.html#s3) in the paragraph "Importing vehicles from countries other than the United States" Sub-paragraph: "Exception", then "For a used or second-hand vehicle less than 15 years old or a bus manufactured on or after January 1, 1971", it's mentioned that it is possible to import a vehicle if it is "for your personal use and you are the person who bought it new" and if "on the condition that the vehicle is designed, manufactured, tested and certified to meet the Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standards or the U.S. Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, bears a statement of compliance label affixed by the original manufacturer, has not been altered, and the certification from the original manufacturer is still on the vehicle"<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Therefore, according to what it's staten on the previously mentioned website, it is correct to affirm that it is possible to import a motorcycle that bears a statement of compliance for the US regualtions but it's not on the RIV list because the list it is not complete. Am I correct?<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    Finally I'd like to know who should I contact in oder to be sure that the vehicle can be imported.

    AND FINALLY THE ANSWER!

    In the case of the vehicle you wish to import, the manufacturer did not supply Transport Canada with the information concerning the U.S. certification status of this vehicle and it's ability to be modified to comply to the (CMVSS) requirements. Even if this manufacturer has authorized importers selling their Canadian compliant (certified) version of that motorcycle here in Canada, it does not mean that their vehicle complies in the U.S. and/or if the vehicle can be modified to comply to the Canadian requirements in the areas where they may differ and, therefore, the importation admissibility status of the vehicle is unknown, rendering it inadmissible for importation into Canada. <o:p></o:p>
    If the motorcycle company that manufactured your vehicle is able to submit the applicable certification documents applicable to your motorcycle including test records for Transport Canada to determine that the motorcycle met all federal standards in the United States at the time of manufacture and, if applicable, can also prove that the vehicle can be modified to conform to the Canadian requirements as needed, the vehicle could be admissible for importation into Canada. This evidence of conformity is a requirement of Section 5(1)(g) of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (viewable at: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/M-10.01/page-2.html#anchorbo-ga:s_5). For further information on this process please see our Guidelines for Canadian Importers and Foreign Manufacturers regarding Motorcycles and Limited-speed Motorcycles (see attachment ABOVE).<o:p></o:p>
    Note that if admissibility can be determined from this information, the other RIV importation requirements still apply including the requirement for a recall clearance letter (see link) www.riv.ca<o:p></o:p>
    PLEASE NOTE: The List of Vehicles Admissible from the U.S. concerns the admissibility of vehicles purchased at the retail level (i.e. used vehicles) in the U.S. that were originally manufactured to conform to the U.S. standards and that can also be modified to comply with Canadian standards in the areas where they differ. To avoid numerous requests for this information of U.S. compliance from potential Canadian importers of these used vehicles, many manufacturers (on a voluntary basis) supply Transport Canada with this information, hence the creation of the admissibility list for the purpose of facilitating the import process (Registrar of Imported Vehicles Program).
    <o:p></o:p>




    Now my next question will be:
    what is a "applicable certification document" ?

    I believe they refer to the compliance letter I mentioned in the first email. Do you guys agree?
    In that case I'd like to inquire if anyone has been successful in getting such a letter from the KTM dealer without paying the 500$. From what I read, most of the dealers would provide a recall clearance letter. If anyone knows a dealer that is canadian friendly in NY OH or PA please PM me!!

    (still I'd like not to boycott KTM because the LC8 is great)
    #19
  20. kirbike

    kirbike Been here awhile

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    Get your compliance letter from KTM USA, I think Mike is the guy I dealt with. He was very helpful and it didn't cost anything. I was importing an 01 closed course competition bike though, that I wanted to get green plated.
    #20