I wanted to continue to discuss with mr twin-shock, without everyone getting pissy that we're having a discussion, which also CAN mean we might not agree... But it is FUN to aree or even to disagree... I ask you (TS) why wouldnt the Montessa, with same mods, not still be a better bike than the Reflux? I was only a teen, but still I rode the montessas most of my early trials career... on 74 model 123's, a 76 172, and I got to test ride (when it would run) several 80's flavors 348 & 9's. until xfering my arse to Bultaco, which was quintasentialy (how do you spell that?) outdated by Fantic quite quickly, which was ligher and more trialsable... Yet even them fantic bikes had some reported "failures" like bent and broken frames, where engineering didnt always equal real life stresses from the "big dogs" of trials, (aka best Experts and masters, even in the USA). My cousin (Albert Wing) bought it new, and even rode master on this thing and nationals, the bike (there is a thread with pictures of the bike today) still is pristine condition. I just cant believe what a bike it seems to have been, now that I have it. Anywho, We did a lot of mods to try to keep the old buls competitive though, but not trying to toot my own horn, honestly! I feel since I managed to trudge onward with the 79 Bultaco for many years into and past 84, I would have ridden 3x better with same skills I had, if I was mounted on the fantic. just that much more suited to the task, IMHO.