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Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by jetpoweredmonkey, Oct 31, 2010.
According to Alain, either or ..........
For security, you can self ask Alain.
+1, I have all winter, a few days one way or the other shouldn't be
an issue with anyone.
i have a question. is the 15 minute reset necessary after every single map change? no matter how minute? for instance, raising the idle by 100 rpm.
In my experience, with over 30 map iterations on my 990S, no. There is an option in the Tuneboy software to Reset Adaptive Settings, which I think does the same thing as the 15 minute 'reset to fast learn' ECU function. TuneECU probably has the same thing, haven't messed with it much yet.
Not sure about the 990,but on the automotive side,we use the "Reset adaptive settings" to reset the "learned" memory back to the factory settings after a repair.Most PCMs have the capability of relearning as you drive but it takes a while.
Easier to just do a "Reboot" ( Reset adaptive settings)
when i got my new mapping was a 15min run done - it is a learning thing not a reset!
How do you know the "learning thing" (15min reset fast-learn mode) is not the same thing as a Reset Adaptive Settings? Do you have a source?
I think that's still a vague question we all have.
Dealers have to do the map and 15min idle because their programming tool actually has less options than a Tuneboy, as told to me by a KTM Service Manager. The only way they can reset learn mode is with the annoying 15min idle.
I will try to explain this. KTM makes all the maps for say, sea level at 70 degrees. Your dealer installs a new map. But, you are at 1,000 elevation and 55 degrees. The idle trick(15 minute reset) is done so the adaptive settings can be set. In other words, while your bike is idleing, the ECU is looking at these sensors. The ECU sees that you are at 1,000' elevation by what the pressure sensor under the front mask sends back to the ECU. The temp sensor in the airbox tells the ECU that you are at 55 degrees(the reason you are suppose to do the idle trick on a stone cold engine). Also with the ECU seeing the Lambdas are running richer do to the elevation, the TPS, Manifold pressure with RPM data etc, etc. It then takes a pre-set formula to "fine tune" that map that was just installed to your conditions.
Now fast forward a couple months. Your dealer has a new map that is leaner in some areas. You go get it installed but your in a hurry and don't have time for this re-set. Plus, you just rode the bike down there. The new map is installed. You jump on your bike and scoot out of there. Here is what is happening in that situation. Your previous "adaptive settings" had leaned out your map because you are at 1,000' el. Now you just took off on a leaner new map. Those adaptive "old" settings are going to instantly lean out the new map. Plus, you brought your bike in "hot". The dealer installed the map straight away for you as you where in a hurry. While he was doing this, your engine heat completely "heat soaked" the airbox. Now when the ECU first starts up, it "sees" a ridiculous high temp in the airbox. What do you think that does to the adaptive settings then?
If you don't do a re-set the ECU will learn and correct with time. It is suppose to "look" to correct every 5 minutes but how much does it correct each time? Seems that it takes a few hundred miles.
My opinion is that the closer you get to a "proper" map the less you need to do a re-set. And since all of you FF's are on here reading this your map must really suck!
Good 'splainin Jeff. As you know we did re-set our adaptive settings with Tuneboy for the first map changes, but in the course of fine tuning many maps, sometimes twice a day, I often didn't even do the Tuneboy reset because I was at the same elevation and bike cold. Since the maps were just fine tunes, there was likely no danger of radically lean maps when doing that. With unknown maps and original map load conditions I would say it would be wise to re-set adaptive settings at least the first time you load a new map, either by 15-min idle or software reset of Adaptive Settings.
Reset TPS (Keihin)
After downloading (Fig. 12), a reset of the TPS is required.
Turn off the ignition, wait ten seconds and turn ignition back on.
With connection re-established with TuneECU proceed :-
<Menu> ECU Reset TPS
Then start the engine and let idle until the TPS status indicator (in the status bar) changes to green (after 10 to 15 minutes).
After downloading, start the engine and let running it idle (without touching accelerator) for 15 minutes,
then turn it off.
Thats the comments on the TuneECU page.
I need to read a bit, but I thought a full download would require this, but if you were just updating portions of the map it may not be required?
Comments? I did read the last posts too and I am still thinking about it. I have been doing a full 15 min idle.
Firstly thanks to Ken, I received my ecu plug.
Thanks also to the guys at TuneEcu for taking the time to find a fix for the lack of tuneability of the LC8 engine, much appreciated.
I've got a 2010 990R Adv with wings exhausts no inserts. Here in western australia there is a group called veetwo motorcycles who tune, modify and remanufacture performance ducatis. They're are considered gurus in tuning high performance V Twins and have access to a dyno. I've got my bike booked in with them in jan and will get them to use the the TuneECU software to try and get a high end map for the above mentioned config. Will upload the results then. Should be interesting :)
cool, im curios to see what they set the f-l switch to.
thx to jeff as he explained it nearly the same way as i heard it in mattighofen (where my source comes from) and btw my english is tuned by google.
in my simple words: 15min run = adapting to the current conditions while at work
i'm still not sure if that is the same as a reset via tuneboy as there is no adapting more a reset to start from square one. or am i thinking in the wrong direction
however, i just want to thank everyone sharing the info here!
12-10-10 TuneECUv1.7.9b now released
* Incorrect position of the TPS (real time) in the F tables, corrected.
Shall we ask for the Android 2.2 Version of TuneECU? We could change maps on the fly during a long trip...
Thanks again. Got my cable and am ready to learn.
Some initial observations:
Looking at the stock tunes: Am I to understand the rev limit for the 09-10 Non-R and R models is 9400rpm and everybody else is set to 9600???
On the 07-08 stock tune the L1/L2's around the 3000 rpm/small throttle openings seems excessively low compared to everyone else's. Could this be in part the problem with the herky jerky throttle we all seem to suffer?
Finally how do you copy and paste the values in the tables, my Vista machine doesn't seem to want to copy any numbers in the charts?
Individual areas or values of a table can not be copied, only whole tables can be copied but only when the tables are the same type.
All other changes must be made individually by hand. Either directly in the F-tables or on the trim tables.
First of all, TuneECU is fantastic!
On my 08 A I have ridden with both the standard map and the open map (U.S.) Approx 400 miles on the open map, and 2,000 miles on the standard.
1. The Open (Akro) map totally eliminates herky jerky, and the 4,000 RPM hesitation. Bike runs like a dream. Issue: Mileage 28-31 tops. Fuel light comes on at about 125 total miles.
2. Standard Map: Bike runs well, but still a bit of hesitation at 4,000 RPM. Gas mileage is 37-40 ish. Some decel popping, but very mild.
I have Remus Titanium cans with inserts installed.
My big question to the FI experts - is there an "in between" map that has been adjusted between the 4-5K RPM range. I can see there is quite a difference in levels when doing the "overlay" function on TuneECU. (Akro vs. Standard).
My unprofessional observation is that more fuel = better performance. But I just don't know how much is enough.
My bet is that somebody has the "perfect" custom map out there for the 07-80 models.
Feel free to PM me if there are any suggestions or some sort of compromise.