TuneECU for 990 - got tunes?

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by jetpoweredmonkey, Oct 31, 2010.

  1. Reese

    Reese Adventurer

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    The second or third time I connected I ended up bending one of the pins on the cable. It looked and felt like it was plugged in but I wasn't getting a connection. Bending the pin back with a screwdriver and being very careful to not force the plug has kept things working.

    Hopefully it's something as easy as that.
  2. Dagwood_55

    Dagwood_55 Long timer

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    I think I've narrowed it down to the ODB cable or box. The ODB LED light will not come on when connected to the bike with the ign switch on. I've taken the cover off the ODB, and when I touch the grounded test light to one side of the LED, it will power up, tho I'm not sure what that is telling me.....

    I have power into it the ODB, on the #16 pin, but have no power at any of the 4 wires coming out of the ODB.

    So, should one of these 4 exit wires from the ODB have power, or light up a test light??
  3. RoundOz

    RoundOz Plenty of seasoning

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    Not sure if I understand where you are saying your problem is but here is a fault finding routine for an OBD2 connector. If some of this doesn't apply just google similar search terms.
    http://youtu.be/0e-9_FuMWzI
    Note the different voltages and partial grounds he finds on these pins...a multimeter will tell you a lot more than a test light.
    Note that ODB and OBD are often confused, it stands for on board diagnostics. Wikipedia is a good source for standard pinouts.

    AFAIK 990s are not fully OBD2 compliant, so taking all you read with a grain of salt and comparing with another 990 might be advised. Perhaps Powercell or other adaptor cable makers could tell you what to expect on the pins.
  4. JayRider83

    JayRider83 Adventurer

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    On the Tune ECU fuel and ignition maps. Shat do the numbers actually represent. Are they fuel percentage, injector pulse with?

    Sent from my DROID RAZR
  5. tahoeacr

    tahoeacr Long timer

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    Milligrams of air.
  6. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

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    OK. I have been following along trying to understand what the Tune ECU will allow me to do. Sorry if these questions have been asked and answered:

    1. When the bike connected with the Tune ECU cable to a computer running their program, am I able to get an engine running analysis--in different RPM ranges, as measured by milligrams of air??? or what is it that is measured and what info is passed on to me for analysis?

    2. I think I get the fact that I can download and install a program that someone else has created. Do these programs alter FI timing, ignition, both or???

    3. Am I able to get meaningful AF data or ? other data in various RPM ranges with just the stock KTM probes and FI monitors? Or do I need another device, probe, something else to get the data I need for tuning?

    4. If I am going anywhere near the right direction with my questions, can I expect to get measured data that is useful for tuning without load on the engine via a dyno or on the bike setup?

    5. If I want to try developing my own map, can I adjust various RPM ranges, making them richer or leaner based on my seat of the pants feel for how the bike is performing? Basically can I "jet" the bike with the Tune ECU setup?
  7. tahoeacr

    tahoeacr Long timer

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    1) No. No measurement is taken. The mga is just so the ECU knows how much fuel to add. Raise the # and the ECU adds fuel in that cell etc. Probably calculated by some KTM engineer. No engine running info from TuneEcu is useful. You need a wideband to tell what is really going on.

    2) Not FI timing. That is a different beast. Just pulse width and ignition timing.

    3) No. See #1 answer

    4) No. Need to load the bike. Kingsbury grade does this real well. Your going the right direction but I'm sure the answers aren't what you want to hear:lol3

    5) That depends on how "in tune" you are with your bike. 80-100% TPS needs a wide-band.
  8. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

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    Thanks Jeff,

    So the Tune ECU doesn't tell me anything about the AF ratio? Does it just tell me what is programmed for that cel?

    Is a "cell" an RPM range?

    So I can add or take away fuel in each cell with the Tune ECU?

    I don't claim to have the most accurate butt dyno around but I do a pretty decent job of jetting. If I am willing to put the time into the trial and error, logging results etc., what are my chances of coming up with a custom map which is a meaningful improvement over stock.

    I am going to read up on wide bands and not hit you with more dumb questions on that.

    Thanks very much!!
  9. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

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    And......how large are the cells--500 RPM, 1000 RPM???? And how many are there to work with?
  10. Alleycatdad

    Alleycatdad Unbunch yer panties!

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    The best way to see how the program works is to download it. It's free. You can mess with stuff without connecting it to your bike just to see how it works.

    That said, I spent a lot of time when I first got it "jetting" my bike just as you describe, and I got a significant improvement over the stock map pretty easily. It's a LOT easier than real jetting since you don't need to do anything except pull the seat and plug in a cable. The biggest issue for a carb tuner to get his or her head around is that this makes specific changes at specific points. There's no "ranges" to deal with, no real overlap, etc.

    I'm currently running a powertripp map that's a really good premade solution, but keep thinking about returning to that map I was working on before....

    Unfortunately my "tuneecu" laptop is currently dead. Never had THAT problem with a carb.:norton

    Anyway, yes, you can "jet" to your heart's content. Wit lots of interval saves you can also return to any prior point with a mouse click.



    SA
  11. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

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    Duh! Thanks Alleycat. I downloaded the program and see the cells. Didn't think about throttle position as an additional cell definition. Obviously need that input.

    Is it possible to leave a small netbook hooked up and on the bike while trying various settings? Leave off top/glove box plastic and right side tank maybe.....

    I am thinking that adjusting settings after stopping would be the best...
  12. Zuber

    Zuber Zoob

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    You could do that. TuneECU will show you some values while the bike is running. BUT, there is no huge advantage to doing that. You need to shut the engine off to write a map to the ECU. When you write a map on the ECU, it will also erase some of the ECU settings it learned about the bike and sensor ranges (read about Initialization). It will take some time for each map to 'settle in', sometimes several hundred miles and several heat cycles to show problems and/or changes.

    Better tuning tools would be: mark your throttle positions on the throttle tube and housing from TuneECU readouts, hook up a vacuum gauge, install a wideband O2 sensor, hook up an electronic vacuum balance gauge, carry a note book and write down the problem areas (as in RPM/Throttle position/mixture). Make changes and Initialize from a cold engine. Ride those settings for a while and note improvements.
  13. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

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    Thanks Zoob. I was overlooking the need for the ECU to re initialize after changes are made. I get most of your suggestions. I have the tool for syncronizing and the ability to measure throttle position. What is the vacuum guage for? I am resisting the purchase of a wideband at this point. May be kidding myself but I'd like to try richening/leaning cells based on my seat of the pants observations as to rich/lean running in the various RPM ranges and at different TP. Like most, my concerns are with the lower RPM ranges--say 2500-5000 and in the lower TP areas--say 10-40%. Still a lot of cells and a lot of trial and error......

    Not looking for peak dyno numbers or race bike performance, just rideability and fuel mileage
  14. Alleycatdad

    Alleycatdad Unbunch yer panties!

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    To measure throttle position, use tuneecu. That way the values will be closest to what the program uses. Easy enuf to mark the grip and switch housing.

    SA
  15. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

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    Gotcha, I think. So Tune ECU will give me usable TP info on a running engine--% open or voltage to determine?? I have used the throttle tube marking for jetting many, many times. But I like the accuracy of matching my markings to the TUNE ECU measurements.

    Thanks!!
  16. Alleycatdad

    Alleycatdad Unbunch yer panties!

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    I don't recall for sure but I think you can mark it without even starting the bike.

    Sa
  17. Jaimoto

    Jaimoto Spaniard in Chile

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    I guess I must stop bothering people by pm and will post here. Thanks Jeff, Shaun.

    After balancing the throttle bodies, manifold pressures at idle looked fine in terms of mbar (380 and 379) but way off in volts, 1,63 and 2,75...
    I took a look at a printed diagnostic made by the KTM dealer last year and again, pressure seems kind of fine (371 & 382) but voltages are 1,64 and 3,44...

    My understanding is manifold pressure (which is fine) translates into volts (which seem to be wrong) so the ECU knows which cell values apply to each cylinder. If that's true, one of my cylinders is working with a wrong A/F ratio and wrong timing.
    After thinking about that, every single noise from the engine sounded wrong to my hears :D and realized that my left exhaust has an intermittent bubble sound at idle while the other exhaust sounds *fine*. Panic :lol3

    Hopefully tomorrow will have time to switch the map sensors and see if the hi/low voltage goes to the other cylinder. But meanwhile I made a nice collection of goggled screenshots of 990s idling and ALL of them shows these pretty different voltage values.

    Here is how looks mine
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    The old printed diagnostic from KTM last year
    [​IMG]


    And a few links to bikes with the same different values (including Dusty's)
    http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14579338&postcount=171
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21972606&postcount=9
    http://www.superduke.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15780
    http://www.superduke.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12511&start=850

    So if my bike has a problem at least is quite common :D
    And ... if one my map sensors is bad, how the hell Tuneecu shows that manifold pressure is fine in hPa values, since these hPa values are read from the ECU as volts? my map sensors have to be fine ... right? :ear
  18. Jaimoto

    Jaimoto Spaniard in Chile

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    I think I figured it out...

    Received a heads up from Jeff -thanks again- about switching map sensors to see if high/low voltage goes to the other cylinder: do not switch the vacuum tubes, the ones going from the sensors to the intakes, they are specific length per cylinder (this comes from KTM)

    Microfiche shows one hose is 50mm and the other 125mm. Now all makes sense...

    Map sensors read vacuum from cyl 1 and 2 through different length hoses, so they get different volt figures. These volts are sent to the ECU which accounts for the difference so it gets the right hPa figures.
    Thus, hPa numbers are calculated from volts, this is true for the ecu, ktm diagnostic tool and tuneecu. And since hPa values are fine, it means map sensors voltages are fine too, they have to work with different voltages.

    Does it make any sense? :ear

    Also, shitty weather so I won't be switching sensors soon, I think I'll leave the bike as is.
  19. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

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    Maybe my 2007 is different. My MAP sensor hoses are the same length. Fiche shows both as 125 mm with same part. But it also shows a different left side sensor with 50 mm hose???? Some alternative for non US bike???
  20. Jaimoto

    Jaimoto Spaniard in Chile

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    You just ruined my day :lol3

    You're right, fiche shows three sensors and two length hoses. Now, which one goes where...?
    The quote from KTM about not switching hoses due to different lengths still makes me think I may be right (not so sure now :lol3)