Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by jetpoweredmonkey, Oct 31, 2010.
All stock except for the FMF Q4's. But it was just as good before they were installed.
so i saw this statement on another thread and i was wondering what you guys thought about the 2 map theory.
The key for the superduke (also applies to the 990 ADV) is that the ECU has two maps in it- one that runs on RPM and manifold pressure, and a second that operates with RPM and throttle position.
The issue is that the ECU switches from one map to the other at 5-10% throttle, which creates the small throttle opening jerkiness we all hate.
With his software, you can simply set the ECU to operate on the TPS map from 0% throttle at any RPM higher than idle, and eliminate the switch back and forth, map to map, and thus eliminate the jerkiness. That's the theory, anyway, I bought the cable and software but now I need a PC to give it a try (I have a mac). After looking at the data and hearing his experience on the dyno with the 990s, I'm pretty convinced this is going to sort the issues".
I wonder if he's referring to closed loop and open loop. Removing the O2 sensors keeps the ECU in open loop and should eliminate the "two map" issue. In my experience, keeping the bike in open loop mode eliminated lean stutter at small throttle openings, but did not eliminate the herky-jerky nature of power application during small to large(r) throttle transitions.
IMHO, we have a very light, very sensitive throttle. I believe it is not related to the mapping, but to the hand attached to this hair trigger. I've added more resistance to the linkage via throttle cable tightening and with the kaoko and I can get pretty smooth results.
Should I lay off the caffeine for a while or does this make sense?
It's all true. But Wayne (TuneBoy) is absolutely useless for customer support. And TuneBoy has no more safe guards than TuneECU has (I've bricked my ECU with TuneBoy before). The TuneECU software is supported by a large community of helpful users, has MORE features and controls than TuneBoy, is MORE stable when reading and writing MAPS, and don't forget it's about $500 less expensive (ie - free). When I e-mail Alain, the developer of TuneECU, he gets right back to me... even making changes I request within days. There's just no comparison between the two...
TuneBoy is history now... Wayne knows it and now you do too...
BTW - I was able to recover my ECU after TuneBoy locked it up with the Orginal KTM software... it has a hard recovery feature. And even though I've never had a problem with the TuneECU software, I'm asking Alain to build this recovery feature into the TuneECU software so you'll never have to worry about a failed write. This is a feature that they cannot add to the TuneBoy due to the MAP key that they require (it's how they continue to get your money even after you pay for the software).
No, he's referring the the transition point where the ECU switches from the manifold pressure sensors to the throttle position sensor. The TPS is more accurate than the manifold pressure sensor, but does not work well at idle... thus the need for both sensors.
so ken, do you think it will cure the jerky throttle if we reduce the F-L switch to zero?
SUre, but it will hunt and stall when it idles...
You need to use the manifold pressure sensors. YOu just need to find a transition smooth transition point. There's also quite a bit of overlap that can be removed.
cool, can you explain the "overlap"? and some pointers on how to remove it?
Overlap is when both sensor ciruits are working at the same time. The only recomendation I have for tuning it is to let a trained tuner with a quality dyno handle that task. You can't "sense" when the AF is correct, you need to measure it... under load.
oh, so its an air fuel thing... not a timing issue.
Hello, to see if we can understand English management it with on-line translator and fairly difficult
with this connection more TUNEECU could modify my bike power curve? and do with it what q I want or need? also delete the ECU failures?
Besides register other element data electronic if you are in operation (lambda e.g. tube), q likeness has q provides official consecionarios KTM, which is more convenient?
thanks and greetings atte
hola , a ver si nos podemos entender , ingles lo manejo con traductor on line y bastante dificultoso ,
con esta conexion mas el programa de TUNEECU pudo modificar la curva de potencia de mi moto ? y hacer con ella lo q quiero o necesito ? ademas de borrar fallas en la ECU ?
ademas registrar datos de los demas elemento electronicos si estan en buen funcionamiento ( sonda lambda ej.) , q semejanza tiene con el q provee los consecionarios oficiales KTM , cual es mas conveniente ?
gracias y saludos atte
Scroll to the bottom, pick a language...
Hey PowerCell, sounds like you have been around the block a few times working with the ECU software. I wonder if you know anything about the secondary butterflies setting. I have read posts from folks who have removed these altogether in an effort to cure this or that problem - this just seems like a bodge to me.
I can see the secondaries acting like the slide in a CV carb in order to keep the air velocity in the throat of the throttle body high. On my bike with a stock map, it feels decidedly as though the secondaries open late, causing a big hesitation. Noise abatement? I have to imagine that the "open" map clears this up, based on what others have written, but I won't know until I try it. I guess you could map all of the secondary settings to 100% in order to keep them open and achieve the same effect as removing them. This also seems kinda like a bodge, the exact same bodge, actually.
Then again, there are plenty of EFI bikes with only one set of user-controlled butterflies that run great. Maybe the secondaries are all about emissions?
Anyway, where I'm going with this is your experience with creating maps on a dyno (or watching someone do it, whichever)...seems like the dyno is typically used to find A/F ratios at WOT to correct for open pipes, etc. Great, but I wonder if your dyno guy is also able to tune at part throttle openings and low to mid RPM, which is in my opinion where the 990 needs all the help. Refining that part of the map would be huge.
Tuning with a dyno allows you to trim fuel for the entire RPM range...
Secondaries are soley for noise control... period.
FI systems don't require high intake velocities through the throttle bodies... there are no venturies.
Not just for noise, PC. Secondaries are also used for power restriction. Take a look at the French market Supermoto map, or compare the 990A to the 990R map secondary position table to see how it works.
The only reason you pull the power back is to control noise... again, period.
Good point. How about your maps, have you just gone to 100% on the secondaries all the time (or removed them)?
Mine have been removed, shafts and all...
Eh no. Noise reduction might be a by-product of a regulatory requirement to reduce power for the French market, or the marketing requirement to differentiate the -A from the -R in horsepower terms. Period.
Why don't you review the maps and look at where the secondaries differ in position? Noise regs are focused at 2/3 gears at relatively low RPMs. The secondaries rein in HP at high RPM and close to WOT on both the '09 and '10 ADV-A and the French market Supermoto.