Turn your KTM950 into AWD in 3,4,5,??? easy steps

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by cjracer, Nov 6, 2010.

  1. Tslapper

    Tslapper #!

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    #61
  2. VertigoCycles

    VertigoCycles Been here awhile

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    I think your machine tools are way cooler than mine :cry

    I'm up for making a Ti 950 AWD ADV frame. Wanna find out how much it costs? :deal I'll leave all the machining of the brackets & fittings to the guy with the big tools. My 1950's Index manual vertical mill doesn't care much for 6/4 ti.

    Nice Arbor by the way. Can't wait to see the rest of this.
    #62
  3. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

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    Now that I have a cutter, I need to do some final prep on the fixturing.

    You can see here that the bolt and nut are sticking up a little above the top of the head tube.
    [​IMG]

    I need to cut as deep as possible to get through the frame tubes clean.

    I milled off the stud and nut.

    I sure hope this works.... Safety glasses on, this job might need a helmet...

    Final program test before reloading and indicating again. I forgot to get some measurement off the frame that I would need for later, so I had to unclamp the frame, then refixture it. Once it's cut off, no turning back.
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    And action.


    http://<OBJECT height=344 width=425>
    &ampampampnbsp
    &ampampampnbsp
    <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UD_ZNF2_4QY?hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></OBJECT>


    Nice and clean cut. Slow and steady worked out great, to my relief.:thumb
    [​IMG]
    #63
  4. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

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    I had just enough cutter length on the hole saw to get a clean cut completely through the frame tube.

    Now I worked on removing the frame and getting setup to cut the opposite side.
    [​IMG]

    I made the base plate so that I can swap on an adaptor bushing to locate the flip side. With two less frame tubes holding the head tube on I needed to rethink how I was going to stabilize the frame.

    I started to bolt it back down through the head tube.
    [​IMG]

    A few more jack screws along the top frame rails.
    [​IMG]

    Indicate it back in like the other side. Looked plenty stable to me, let's give it a go.


    http://<OBJECT height=344 width=425>


    <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/A8jZigLzjkA?hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></OBJECT>
    </P>
    #64
  5. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

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    But that's not all.....

    The 950 ADV frames have 6 tubes going into the head tube. I now have 4 cut free with 2 more to go. Now's time to get the Sawzall out to start on the center tubes. Those are less critical because I've now recreated the headtube angle w/ the 1st and 2nd cuts in the CNC.

    This proved to be more time consuming than I thought. I didn't have a great way to keep the frame from moving around the shop. Where is that ROBOT????

    In about 2 days time I destroyed a perfectly good KTM 950 ADV frame.:eek1
    [​IMG]

    Looks like progress to me, horror to anyone that stopped into the shop over those days.:lol3

    Next step is to get this to fit.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Looks like more grinding and cutting.:freaky
    #65
  6. pfb

    pfb Riding, not skiing.

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    Hmmm...

    Thinking I couldn't duplicate this with my $99 Home Depot drill press. :cry
    #66
  7. Florida Lime

    Florida Lime Long timer

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    Of course you can.


    When you get done - YOU get to try it first. :rofl
    #67
  8. RatBikeRider

    RatBikeRider Zoom

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    Really enjoy reading this build. :clap Keep it up.
    #68
  9. StevenD

    StevenD Hmmmm, dirt!

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    A New tube?
    That's something impossible over here, that would require replating the bike, a very expensive procedure with complete tech test (need drawings of the frame and calculations of it)

    Can you just reprint the numbers on your tube without trouble?
    #69
  10. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

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    Honestly, that was the least of my worries. :lol3

    We'll get to that later.....:thumb
    #70
  11. Deadly99

    Deadly99 Fast and Far

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    #71
  12. BikePilot

    BikePilot Long timer

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    Awesome project! I'm not a fan of AWD on a light MX-based bike, but it'd be just perfect on a heavy adv bike imho. Impressed with your building skills. I'm actually a bit astounded that BMW nor KTM have seen fit to offer an AWD option. Even if you only put 10% of the power to the front wheel it might help quite a lot in mud and such.
    #72
  13. rtadlock

    rtadlock Long timer

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    Best. Thread. Ever. :super
    #73
  14. VertigoCycles

    VertigoCycles Been here awhile

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    How does the head tube behave when the frame is welded up? Is there so much distortion that you have to re-surface the bearing seats or is the tubing thick enough to render it moot?

    (I'm used to "thin" tubing {0.035} and even with the use of heat sinks there's enough distortion to make post-weld machining necessary)
    #74
  15. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

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    Very real concerns and this will be addressed in future posts.:thumb
    #75
  16. VertigoCycles

    VertigoCycles Been here awhile

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    :thumb I'm going to sit on my hands for a while and watch this unfold. :lurk
    #76
  17. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

    Joined:
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    Now that the Head Tube is removed there in no turning back now, one way or another I was going to get this to work. If I couldn't, there would have been a very interesting Flee Market add.....:baldy

    You can see here that the 950 Head Tube is a little longer than a 530 Head Tube.
    [​IMG]

    And for good reason. This frame needs to handle twice the power and weight of the smaller bike w/o out flexing. You can also see how much larger the Head Tube Bearings are over stock, adding strength.

    The Orange cover on the Head Tube is the Inspection/Service cover for the gears inside the head, sealed in by a rubber gasket. These gears are greased w/ synthetic grease and run.

    Now that the frame is out of the CNC machine, it's ready to be put back on the bench. I put the 950 ADV engine up there on block and bolted the frame down around it. This is the first time for me to start trying to fit all these pieces together.

    This might fit here....NO maybe over here. Well that won't work either.....maybe if I cut this off, and this......:scratch
    [​IMG]

    Normally there is a bit of room to work with on the singles, but not so much with that rear cylinder in the way. Oh, ya....Don't forget the bank of carbs up top.

    I start to work with the CAD to design some gear box mounts and print them out on paper to help me visualize this stuff. I don't have PRO-E, just POOR-E. HA-HA...bad joke.

    [​IMG]

    I let this sit for a bit while I thought of placement ideas. I have some fee CNC time so I started to work on a Sprocket Fixture to test location for the second sprocket. Ordered up a single point Thread mill holder to allow me to make whatever size thread I needed. Much cheaper in the long run than buying a tap for these larger sizes.

    I could have done this on the lathe, but I still needed to mill Hex Flats on with the mill, so I just did everything in the CNC in two holdings.
    1) Mill the 32MM hex (same as Stock) and the Arbor Dia and length.
    2) Flip it over holding onto the Arbor Dia in a vise with some jaws cut to hold that Dia. Mill the bore and Minor Dia, then Thread mill.

    Takes a little program work and testing, but it's easier to hit a button and have the machine to it. Plus I'll have it figured out for when I need to make more out of Stainless in the future for the working part.

    Not to bad.
    [​IMG]

    This would act as the test "BOLT" to hold the counter shaft sprocket on.
    [​IMG]
    #77
  18. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    Man, I wish I had your mechanical knowledge and problem solving skills
    #78
  19. Mr. Wolf

    Mr. Wolf Adventurer

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    show off :lol3
    #79
  20. dmaxmike

    dmaxmike former quadtard.

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    ahhh! i love people with CNC's in there garage! i take it by the youtube vids that its done in real life so get to i wanna see how many pounds of shit you had to stuff in a 5 pound bag for this one to work! :freaky
    #80