Turn your KTM950 into AWD in 3,4,5,??? easy steps

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by cjracer, Nov 6, 2010.

  1. mdfehrmann

    mdfehrmann Been here awhile

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    I can't wait to see this in action with my own 2 eyes!
    Nice job man:clap
    #81
  2. Wyobrew

    Wyobrew Missed it by that mu

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    Craig,
    Sorry I could not stop by and see the bike in person on my trip thru Wisconsin last week. Your talent amazes me and it is great that you took the time to document and share this build. :thumbup

    Doug
    Sheridan, WY
    #82
  3. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

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    Thanks guys. Sorry for the delay. Holidays and all is a busy time around the homestead. Everyone is out shopping so, now back to the build-up.:thumb


    With and adaptor built now to locate the sprocket on the output shaft, next up was to make a sprocket.:scratch Or rather modify a sprocket. Not knowing my exact gear ratio would mean that making a up a few sizes would be helpful down the road.

    The 950 is geared a little higher than the 530. What came in the kit were 530 sprockets so I tried to calculate accordingly. If I just used the 530 sprocket my front end would not be spinning fast enough.

    I machined the center out of the sprockets to fit on my adaptor. Now I can slide the gear back and forth to work out my side to side position with out being lock down yet.
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    [​IMG]

    The goal is to keep this as slim as possible.

    Trying to find a place to stuff the 90 Degree gear box was going to be fun too.

    Finally after lots of head scratching I pulled the Sawzall back out and made some thinking room.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #83
  4. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

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    All the while in the back of my mind I was trying to think of ways to make this more of pure 950 dirt bike. I found a used 950 SE tank and started down that road.
    [​IMG]

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    I was surprised at how different the 950 SE and 950 ADV frames were. Geometry wise, they are the same from what I could see, but all the tabs and mounting points for stuff were way off.

    I'd also need a new radiator, oil tank, engine mounts, sub-frame......the list goes on.

    I could make new tabs for everything and an oil tank and....., but that would take more time and I wanted to keep the work load down a little bit. I had enough to do as it was. This first build is to prove out the idea.

    I decided to work with what I have on hand at this time and look at the 950 SE next.:D



    Digging through the box of parts, I assembled the gear box, carbon fiber slipper clutch, and drive shaft. Possitioned them in the frame like they would be on the 530.
    [​IMG]
    Chain cover installed to help visualize how this would look.
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    I didn't like how far it stuck out on top. It would rub on your knee and push your leg out on the left side. Time to start moving things arounds. Always thinking "How am I going to hook this up to the head tube?"
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    I can't move it in any farther because the carbs are in the way.
    So the gear box it too thick, need to modify this a little bit.
    [​IMG]
    #84
  5. DakarBlues

    DakarBlues One-everythinged man

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    CJ,

    I looked at some video of getoffs on dirt, and basically it boils down to rear wheel loosing traction and trying to pass the front wheel, with the result being a circle traced by the rear wheel and highside the unfortunate outcome..
    With this system, whenever rear wheel looses traction, front wheel pulls the whole bike forward with the result being back wheel falling back in line.
    I am sure the big manufacturers will take a look at your practical experiment of bringing a big dual purpose AWD to the real world.
    They will take notice, and the first one to bring such a bike to the market will make a killing.

    I am interested!q

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4gYh1mnfKY&feature=related
    #85
  6. DakarBlues

    DakarBlues One-everythinged man

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    Chris,


    did you explore the possibility of a tandem sprocket instead of side by side?
    It seems like there is some room behind the frame loop to put a dual sprocket coupled with a chain guide with rollers to keep the chain taut and drive the two sets of sprocket, and then it seems like it would be possible to install the clutch and gearbox where the toolbox is on a 950.
    This would have the whole drive to the transfer inside the frame perimeter.

    [​IMG]

    My $0.02

    But you are the one doing the cutting/welding/sweating and experimenting though.

    Maybe you have even explored that road?

    Keep on the good work.
    #86
  7. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

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    Yep,:nod

    I didn't want to give up any of my storage space on an ADV bike, and the gear box itself was still too large even after some modifying. The gear box was proven and pretty compact. It survives on the 530, but I didn't want to change it in order to test it out on the 950. Part the durability testing on my part for the Christini System.

    Moving it back it to that space I found I'd need to deal w/ the shock reservoir, preload adjuster and the rear collector. I run a 2-1 so I have some more room, but many love the sound of the Duals, so I kept working on it.
    Looking at a 950 SE it seams there is "All the Room in the World", but an ADV is a bit more cramped. I guess building the harder version first was best as now the SE "should" be way easier. Plus I have plans for a custom subframe in the future and I didn't want to have to build 2 version.:evil

    But, that's just what I saw.

    #87
  8. adiablolex

    adiablolex Lost again

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    wow just caught up to this thread.

    Great work CJ!
    At this point I'm surprised that KTM hasn't adopted you yet...:thumb
    #88
  9. Pete640

    Pete640 I hate sand.......

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    SSSSSHHHHHHHHH - dont say that, could you imagine what all of CJ's gear would cost then....:cry :cry :cry
    But I suppose all those little pesky bike problems we love would be solved and we'd have nothing to winge about...
    Now back to the story....:clap

    Pete:1drink
    #89
  10. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

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    I see we flipped the next page:

    Back to this pic:
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    In the above pic, you can see a scribe line in the RED. That's the top of the input shaft. I needed to put the gear box on a diet, so into the CNC it went.
    [​IMG]

    I cut it down as thin as the guts would allow.

    But with all these pesky frame rails in the way it was tough to eye ball how things would fit together and line up. I thought "I could always weld them back in if need be, right????"

    So let's get rid of this....


    [​IMG]

    It's easy to just grab the Sawzall and cut away, but you can make a mess of it real quick and set yourself further back. I still needed to machine some billet parts.



    Back to the sketch pad and CAD to draw up a Gear box mount/ Frame support piece to weld in.

    That done and tools in the CNC, I'm ready to make chips.:wink: I love the sound a CNC machine makes when removing metal in a controlled manner. I guess that's what drives me to do work on this stuff, even when people stop by and ask "What's that NOISE?", Then I show them the cut apart frame and go over my ideas. They look at me as if my Space Ship is parked out back.:lol3

    So after a few hours of work I had the inside roughed out, waiting to finish up the Finish bore sizes for the bearings.
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    Flip is over and finish up the back. Taking lighter cuts so it doesn't fly out and hit me in the head.
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    In about 8-10hrs (Drawing sketch-CAD drawing-Program-Tool Set up-Pick up my Zeros-Prove out the program-First Prototype part) I end up with this steel part.
    [​IMG]
    #90
  11. cyborg

    cyborg Potius Sero Quam Numquam

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    [​IMG] :lurk
    #91
  12. Yascher

    Yascher Been here awhile

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    Looks like your shop has a lot of stuff we gudgetfreaks can jork off on:rofl

    I cant believe that you machined that from steel....I would have started experimenting with a wood or plastic model, until it all fits together properly...but you definetely enjoed manufacturing process of this bit )))))))
    #92
  13. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

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    I agree.
    I would have normally made it out of Alum first. Faster to machine and normally cheaper. I had the stock sitting around and it's hard to tack weld Wood to a steel frame for test fitting.:D

    I'm "normally" pretty good at this and I did have an Alum version from the Honda Frame mount to get some of the dimensions from. Earlier, you could see that I printed out some drawings and cut them out with scissors to mock it up on the frame. About 10x back and forth from the CAD/Printer/and cut-out and I was pretty close. At least close enough to make a 3-D part. Some times you just have to roll the dice and hope for the best.:thumb

    Worst case I could weld it up and re-cut it.
    #93
  14. Yascher

    Yascher Been here awhile

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    :thumb
    #94
  15. dagwood

    dagwood Banned

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    :bow
    #95
  16. Yascher

    Yascher Been here awhile

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    lets see it in action))))
    #96
  17. SS in Vzla.

    SS in Vzla. Totally Normal? I'm not!

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    #97
  18. snowman88

    snowman88 Adventurer

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    :bow
    #98
  19. jdw4748

    jdw4748 Adventurer

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    Not to be a beetch but.
    HELLO-HELLo-HELlo-HEllo-Hello-hello, is their anybody out there.
    (Dont know if thats how the whole echo effect is done but) Any chance of get this going again.
    #99
  20. Nailhead

    Nailhead Free at last!

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    My hunch is CJ'll get back to this writeup as time permits. Patience has its rewards.