Twitchy throttle

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by Perspicacious, Mar 26, 2012.

  1. Perspicacious

    Perspicacious Adventurer

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    EVERYBODY complains about the twitchy throttle on the F800GS.

    My Land Rover Defender (2010 2.4L turbo diesel Ford engine (Puma)) features a fly-by-wire electronic accelerator peddle. When you switch the transfer case over to low range, the electronics that govern the accelerator are designed to make the accelerator much LESS responsive, especially to short sharp accelerator movements. That way, when you go over a big bump (as happens when driving in terrain demanding low range) and your foot moves up or down, the vehicle does not surge. The Mitsubishi Pajero I owned before the Defender did this too. You can see where I am going with this...

    The F800GS has a fly-by-wire throttle. What is to stop BMW (or some after-market electronic engineer) giving me a switch on my handle-bar that I can flick to make my throttle less responsive? I've seen a few suggested solutions to the twitchy throttle over the years, but I have never seen this suggested (which might be a reflection on me more than anything).
    #1
  2. lawe

    lawe lawe

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    The 800GS has a traditional wire. No electronics involved there.
    #2
  3. officerleroy

    officerleroy Been here awhile

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    So on your Land Rover what would happen if you punched the throttle open the same amount caused by a bump kick? Does it feed the power gradually? Is it an abrupt delay?

    I've got the booster plug on mine and that's helpend immensly, but I'm still looking for a little less twitch, especially at crawling speeds off road. I'm hoping one of those G2 throttle cams will fix this.
    #3
  4. grndzr0

    grndzr0 its Ground Zero

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    So with the F800 cable to throttle body connection, Your grip twist is mechanically connected to the throttle body butterflies, which are letting the air in. The computer can vary the amount of fuel it wants to give the bike, and then we can modify this further with accelerator modules, power commanders, etc.

    With the fly by wire throttle, the computer can essentially vary the inputs to the throttle bodies however it may seem fit. This would have some pretty sweet applications, especially in our world. (Wanting to have a sportbike that is also a dirtbike!!!)

    Ryan
    #4
  5. BudMor

    BudMor Can't have just one.

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    If you want to get over the twitchiness of an 800gs throttle just get someone to lend you their KTM 990 for a few days then go back to riding your 800GS. You will wonder why the 800GS throttle is so slow. :)
    #5
  6. HighTechCoonass

    HighTechCoonass Living the Dream....

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    I would not modify "throttle positions sensor" electronicly... I think the Resistance Tuning works best. "Power Controller":evil

    Now if one could modify / re program the F800gs ECU settings based on a digital input (trail mode)- that would be the next best thing...

    The Yamaha 1200 Tenera has a mode switch...:evil

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    What does Yamaha D-Mode do? - (Drive-Mode)
    The NON technical explanation is that it gives the rider a choice to manage the (Engine Mapping) power output in accordance to the terrain being ridden.
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Example:[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]On the XT1200Z Super Tenere, the Sport Mode will give you quicker acceleration on the tar, but maybe too powerful for a technical rocky river crossing. The fuel consumption is also greater in S-Mode.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Touring Mode will be noticeable more docile, but will be better to handle in loose sections and wet conditions - fuel consumption is improved in [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]T Mode and you will loose a bit of top end as well.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So for road riding, short day rides where fuel economy is not an issue you would want to use S mode and Traction Control mode 1 or Mode 2[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For Gravel sections and tricky loose or rocky sections you would want to use T Mode and Traction Control Mode 1[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you are more experienced and like to ride like a hooligan, then switch the Traction Control ,to Mode 2 or OFF Mode and the power to [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]S Mode - for a more, OLD SCHOOL type of riding.[/FONT]


    <TABLE height=613 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=488 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The True Test: Imagine freshly wet hard packed clay roads - as slippery as it gets. We passed a water truck along the way, wetting the forest roads - needless to say I have never ridden in such slippery conditions.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The traction control has two settings - Default Mode 1 (Most traction) Mode 2 (Moderate traction but a little bit of wheel spin) and OFF Mode.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]With the Traction Control set on Default Mode 1 (Most Traction) it was nearly impossible to get the rear wheel to spin even in the wet clay. The acceleration is smooth and there is no engine spluttering. It feels like the clutch is slipping as the bike accelerates smoothly forward.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]With the Traction Control set on Mode 2 (Moderate Traction) the back end was a little loose, but the bike behaved incredibly well on the slippery surface and always still accelerated with very slight wiggling.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]With the Traction Control switched to Off mode - the bike began to behave like its other 1200cc and 990cc competitors would on an ice rink - almost putting me down in the mud.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There is no doubt some riders will prefer to ride with the bike in OFF MODE all the time - allowing for drifting and wheel spinning - but if you need to get the bike under control in adverse conditions, or you are a novice Dualsport Rider - the technology won't let you down - or put you down.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]. [/FONT]


    </TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width=244>[​IMG]</TD><TD vAlign=top width=244>[​IMG]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>




    [​IMG]
    #6
  7. Hicks

    Hicks der Überluber

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    +1.

    and besides this... I love the 8GS throttle.

    the 800GS behaves imho best under moderate/high throttle... at that moment you dont have to elaborate much about its sensitivity.

    so being oversensitive to the reactions of our bike could well indicate some riders deficiences :p
    #7
  8. Maxacceleration

    Maxacceleration Off the grid

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    At crawling speeding on a manual tranny you can feed your clutch in & out potentially through technical sections.
    You can't always lug down to nothing, smoothly with a manual.
    With my 658 I feed my clutch in & out which also gives a smooth buffer from snatch (throttle or chain). Maybe dragging the rear brake at times.
    But finesse for sure.
    #8
  9. HighTechCoonass

    HighTechCoonass Living the Dream....

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    When I first got my F800GS (first one in the states) I wrote about the twitchy throttle ... someone posted "the clutch is your friend". bullshit...:topes. If you a riding a loaded down 800 cc dirt bike you need to control the torque. Thats why the Power Controller, Accelerator, Booster Plug are so popular. AND thats why Yamaha has the mode switch..... They know it is needed and its a great selling point.
    #9
  10. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

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    I remember that post. Basic off road sop. If you try that in some of the mountainous grades in the West for a mile or two, all it gets you is a burnt clutch.

    The fuel modules work and provide more low rpm power to boot. Enough that clutch slipping is at a minimum.

    Of course, if you upgrade the suspension you can do it faster, which gets you into a higher rpm range.
    #10
  11. Perspicacious

    Perspicacious Adventurer

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    Looks like I got that wrong then. I've had the thing 3 years and clearly not paid enough attention.
    #11
  12. Perspicacious

    Perspicacious Adventurer

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    No idea as I've never tried.

    The power is fed quite normally (taking into account that you're in low range), but the throttle just ignores sudden sharp movements. You can intentionally jiggle your foot up and down and the car does not surge and back off very much (there is some effect but it is very small compared to doing the same thing in high range).
    The other cool thing about low range in a Defender is that the vehicle will not stall. It just keeps chugging along with the ECU feeding enough diesel to keep the engine ticking over.
    #12
  13. Perspicacious

    Perspicacious Adventurer

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    No doubt part of the problem is with my deficiencies as a rider. Still, an engineered solution is a solution nonetheless.
    #13
  14. Perspicacious

    Perspicacious Adventurer

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    One last point: there is no doubt that BMW can do something about the twitchy throttle. I have a 2009 F800GS and the throttle was unbelievably twitchy when I first got it. At the 10,000km service BMW flashed the ECU and things improved--still twitchy but noticeably better. There are posts on this forum about it somewhere.

    I assume BMW has done what it can within the parameters of the standard hardware but flashing the ECU shows that there are ECU solutions, at least up to a point.
    #14
  15. Maxacceleration

    Maxacceleration Off the grid

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    I am not suggesting 'slipping' the clutch as in sliding it up hills & such. Merely engaging/disengaging in certain areas. It can be of help.

    Using your clutch, when you need to is a manner of controlling your torque. Or going through rocks boulders or obstructions.
    Sometimes you just can't ride through a section on your loaded down 800cc tank.
    Some people can control their snatchy throttle better than others. Not saying the beemer is so smooth.
    Personally my bike works ok as is.
    Just saying. :norton
    #15
  16. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

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    It is all about emissions. Leaner mixtures have less of it. There was a voluntary commitment for the manufactures to meet 2012 European standards. I think BMW just volunteered us. We are not the biggest importer of BMW bikes, so got sucked into the vortex.

    BMW did the same thing with mandated ABS. I am not sure Europe has agreed on the implementation schedule yet, but BMW put them on all bikes starting in 2012.

    The reflash did improve rideability.

    On the subject of not knowing what the reflash did, my dealer consistently told me they have no idea what updated software is meant to cure. Got the same response regarding fear of losing my miles to empty function. Their story is, they load the software into their fault reader/computer thingy and hook the bike up. I am out of warranty, the bike runs fine and could tell them to not to do it, but am afraid of loosing something good.
    #16
  17. High Country Herb

    High Country Herb Adventure Connoiseur

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    My Aprilia has elctronically controlled throttle, which I suspect will become standard on most bikes in the future.

    It has three modes: "Sport" is twitchy, and hits full throttle with about 1/4 turn of the wrist. "Tour" is just right for me, requiring about 1/2 turn to reach max throttle. "Rain" not only increases the amount of time it takes for the throttle to follow the movements of your wrist, but also limits max horsepower. I use this mode off road, to control wheel spin with my primarily street oriented tire. If you give it full throttle abruptly, you can feel the throttle bodies delay until they catch up.
    #17
  18. Hicks

    Hicks der Überluber

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    you really did notice a difference?

    I did not.. at all. They told me that the new map should be a bit calmer.. I protested, but luckily... felt no difference :D
    #18
  19. Hicks

    Hicks der Überluber

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    I heard another story.. the new flash (at least that back in 2010 or so) solved SUDDEN AND UNWANTED ENGINE STOPS WHILE RUNNING.

    I have this issues only when I'm arranging a BMW key pouch on highway :)
    #19
  20. itchy&scratchy

    itchy&scratchy Twins, Bazil

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    I'm with you mate. I hate the throttle, you go over a rock and power on whether you wanted to or not so for me it makes riding slow, a pain in the arse.
    I'm fitting one of those remapping things from USA ASAP.
    By the way I also have a 09 Defender 110 ute here in Australia.
    #20