Understand your ABS system, and what it CAN'T do:

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Andyvh1959, Jan 11, 2018 at 5:42 AM.

  1. Advntr

    Advntr Dilbert

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Oddometer:
    599
    Location:
    Western NY or passing you somewhere
    Analyze all you want. I ride one of those Harleys with form over function antilock brakes. They work, and work well. OK? Need more testimony? I'm still here and not in a wheelchair.
    :D
    #21
    ydarg and Vertical C like this.
  2. foxtrapper

    foxtrapper Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Oddometer:
    2,166
    A pre-release video! Harley didn't put ABS on the V-rod until 2008, and didn't have available to the public until the same year.

    In any case, if that video can better get it across to people that ABS doesn't give them super powers, great. ABS can maximize your traction, but can't give you more traction.
    #22
  3. XRCA

    XRCA Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2017
    Oddometer:
    14
    Location:
    San Diego
    The most important six inches on the battlefield is in between your ears. - General James Mattis, USMC
    #23
  4. Pecha72

    Pecha72 Long timer

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Oddometer:
    6,697
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    I agree with the basic principle - too fast into a corner, no current system will save you.

    MSC stability control does however do a really good job, when braking "too much" into the corner after getting in too hot and even if you are pushed close to the shoulder where there is often dirt, sand etc. Right here you will always have the camp, who say you should not do a mistake like that, which is basically true, BUT if I were a beginner, and somehow found myself in that situation (and it is not unfathomable for a more experienced rider to be caught out sometimes), it's pretty easy for me to choose, if I'd rather have normal brakes, or MSC at that moment. Starting to trust the systems to save you, will of course be a bad mistake, then you will soon get into a situation where they won't.
    #24
    Caesars_ghost likes this.
  5. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Oddometer:
    13,452
    Location:
    Delaware Ohio
    Wow! I'm pretty skilled! Thanks. :D
    #25
  6. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Oddometer:
    13,452
    Location:
    Delaware Ohio
    The most important eight inches in the bedroom is in between your legs. - Ron Jeremy :lol2
    #26
  7. Andyvh1959

    Andyvh1959 Cheesehead Klompen

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Oddometer:
    2,341
    Location:
    Da frozen tundra eh? 1.5 mile west of Lambeau
    I think the quotes section is down in Jo Momma. Good quotes though.
    #27
  8. XRCA

    XRCA Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2017
    Oddometer:
    14
    Location:
    San Diego
    I'm essentially trying to say that ABS, etc won't save you. Use your head.
    #28
  9. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Bitch called me a feminist.

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Oddometer:
    19,083
    Location:
    Nippon
    Its not as if you need the full C-ABS, regular ABS WILL keep you up.

    I have done it at the track where I asked to much of a cold front street tire (no warmers, second lap) the ABS wasn't on while vertical but that changed dramatically once I started to tip in. Yeah I had to change lines, and it got into a "deep cycle" but what would likely have been a front end wash without the ABS was merely a brief line widening, and it still slowed me enough to make the situation easily manageable.

    Of course I turn the rear off because the MTC is very aggressive about keeping the tail on the ground/at road speed which does funky things to your front brakes at bad times when you are coming off of a straight.

    As I noted though, ideally you are riding as hard as you like WITHOUT making the TC/ABS/MTC/Anti-wheelie save you. At least that is what I aim for.
    #29
    Pecha72 likes this.
  10. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Bitch called me a feminist.

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Oddometer:
    19,083
    Location:
    Nippon
    Not always true, if you are on the brakes and catch a sudden dip (happens) or traction is compromised by sand/gravel/spilled fuel/oil/transmission fluid if it is going to be savable, the ABS will make sure that it happens.

    Last time I went down on the street was a transmission fluid spill, ABS wouldn't have helped in that case as I was going all of 10-15mph and ON THE THROTTLE when the front started to wash...gave it some throttle to try to pull out....nope, splat. Standing in that puddle I couldn't see it, but I could feel it under my boot, when I got home I could smell it on my pants. This was literally turning into a larking lot, made the left and as I was getting ready started to tip the to make a right into a gas station....boom.
    #30
  11. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Oddometer:
    13,452
    Location:
    Delaware Ohio
    Couldn't help it, first thing that popped in my head after reading Gen. Mattis' quote... :D
    #31
  12. Andyvh1959

    Andyvh1959 Cheesehead Klompen

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Oddometer:
    2,341
    Location:
    Da frozen tundra eh? 1.5 mile west of Lambeau
    Not to sound elitist, this thread and the people posting on it show a good or at least involved understanding of the control capabilities and limitations of ABS systems. But to the general riding public I'd bet a very high percentage of riders have no clue at all how it works, how it benefits them, how to use it, and especially how it may still limit them. Plus a large percentage of them simply don't care, they just ride and take whatever comes up, until they're not able to ride any more.
    #32
  13. st3ryder

    st3ryder Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Oddometer:
    310
    I appreciate this thread and what you're trying to do, however you're up against some pretty slick manufactuers' marketing and engineering "profit centers" who now tell you their inertial/lean angle measuring devices, allow you to ABS brake into and through a corner. Apparently with no harm done. Faster and faster, with less and less skill. All you need is the money to buy the bike and you can ride like a pro. Soon...target fixation sensors that will kick in and steer and brake the bike while you sit frozen like a stiff dick in the saddle. Soon after that..two wheeled transportation pods...just sit in it and tell it where you want to go and choose the ride mode...all you'll need is the money...zero skill set required. ;) Well, it would be a way of attracting new riders. :-)
    #33
  14. Andyvh1959

    Andyvh1959 Cheesehead Klompen

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Oddometer:
    2,341
    Location:
    Da frozen tundra eh? 1.5 mile west of Lambeau
    And for me I find the whole idea of bikes that do everything repulsive and counter productive. Its bad enough cars are already further dumbing down the driver involvement in the activities of driving, like driving is such a burden on us. Reduce the driver involvement at the wheel, if there is a wheel at all! Chevy just this week reported they want road laws changed to allow the new Chevy Cruze which has no steering wheel, no throttle or brake pedals. Now, that simply makes it a delivery pod, so why not shift all transportation focus to public systems rather than self driving pods? If motorcycles that do everything to allow the "rider" to just be there are on the horizon,....well me and a lot of us will turn from that horizon and ride the other way.

    Perhaps cars and transportation in general is morphing into the next realm, in a way like transportation morphed away from horse/rider to driver/car. I bet back in the early 1900s there were many people saying the whole idea of a single person operating a complex machine all over public was incomprehensible. If so, if cars and motorcycles as we know them will be obsolete within the next 25 years, well then I'm glad I'm already 60. My riding days should well be done by that time.
    #34
    luftkoph likes this.
  15. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Oddometer:
    13,452
    Location:
    Delaware Ohio
    Personally I'd kind of like a pod when it comes to driving to work and similar tasks. Not so much when riding a motorcycle though. If they had a bus service to the school I'd take it. Rode the busses at Kent State and they were efficient for my use. I'd really like to jump on I-71 and then forget about driving. But when I hit 541 or 164 on the bike I want to control things. Not to say I wouldn't want ABS or the like, just that I want to steer and feel it.
    #35