# Understanding Countersteering and ATGATT, Correlation?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by davidbeinct, Aug 29, 2013.

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## Countersteering and ATGATT - Correlation?

1. ### davidbeinctBeen here awhile

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So, we have to piled up threads here, about two of the more contentious topics on motorcycle boards. Whether it is important for n00bs to understand countersteering, and ATGATT. I wondered if their is a correlation, so I'm conducting a poll. Please just participate in the poll, there are already places to go pile on the side you don't agree with.

It seems we basically have four possibilities, based on a two by two matrix:

ATGATT, Yes teach countersteering.
ATGATT, Pfft to teaching countersteering.
Gear as I see fit, Yes teach countersteering.
Gear as I see fit, Pfft to countersteering.

Obviously, gear as I see fit and are somewhat subjective, so please answer according to what you feel your philosophy is.

David B.
2. ### HesaidLong timer

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Aren't options 2 and 4 the same? Or am I missing something? In the actual poll, that is, not the options you have at the bottom of your post.

MV
3. ### DudeCloneLong timer

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4. ### davidbeinctBeen here awhile

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Doh. Can I edit my own poll? I will try.
5. ### MotoTexMiles of Smiles

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If you can modify the Poll, replace "teach" with "learn" and I'd find it easier to place a vote.

In the realm of countersteering "teach" and "preach" often can be nearly the same. For me it was more important to learn that it ever has been to teach. (and I have taught it for a living)
6. ### tapdiggyBeen here awhile

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I do enjoy me some anecdotal science. To clarify though: Is the poll to determine what participants think that "noobs", as you call them, should know about; or is the poll intended to be voted by only said noobs? Or is it for everyone, to determine what they think they should know?
7. ### orangebearLong timer

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There is no need to tech countersteering as its easy to steer / lean / corner a bike and wear gear and if you don't then don't come on hear saying I should of had my leathers on and I have bad road burn.
8. ### txwandererBeen here awhile

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The IMPORTANT thing everyone should really remember, is to never try to learn about either of them here.
9. ### Red9Been here awhile

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So the way to read this:
It's not enough that the ATGATT crowd feels the need to preach to those who do not gear up all the time, they now would like you to believe that because they fear falling off their ride, they are better riders...

Give this shit a break.

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I agree!
11. ### tapdiggyBeen here awhile

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Facetious tone aside, yep, this forum isn't the place for learning anything.
12. ### Aj MickLong timer

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I got my learnin' from the School of Hard Knocks in 1966...... have covered the best part of half a million km in about a dozen and a half countries since then.

Down on the farm I have turned a few bulls into steers in my time, and encountered them several times before their final muster to be trucked off for slaughter.

Sometimes we boiled up a few steer bones and added ATGATT, MSF and CBT macaroni. We called it alphabet soup.

It wasn't until I joined an internet forum a couple of years back that I discovered these terms had any application to motorcycling. Having survived all these years, muddling along, apparently uneducated and under clad, I cannot see what the fuss is about.
13. ### txwandererBeen here awhile

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Dealing with the publiC has made me that way to some extent, but this wasn't a case.

You can read ad nauseum the two sides of anything and throw in a mix of humor, ignorance and trolling and there you have it,,,,,,,,,,,A MC forum.

For the "book" guys, I'll agree a book may help someone who needs to touch up things but it usually confuses or overwhelms new or novice riders. After a few months to years under the belt some are really great.

Learn to ride from someone who can teach you in a manner that you get the knowledge to stay alive, the rest will come in time, for most.

Cheers
14. ### DAKEZLong timer

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"Say, you're not from around here are you?"

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16. ### hippiebrianLong timer

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Wear your gear, that's a given. I'm actually most of the gear all the time, as around town it's just the jacket, jeans, boots, full face and gloves with the pants added for anything that involves the freeway.

No need to teach countersteering, as if you can make a motorcycle change direction, you are already countersteering wether you know it or not, and there is no need to put more information into the head of someone who is learning how to ride than necessary.

I've been riding 40 years, and I was riding 25 or so years before I ever even heard of countersteering.
17. ### MotoTexMiles of Smiles

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Same for me. I must say that once the concept of countersteering sank in, my ability to employ it increased exponentially.

It was a kind of mystery before, but I got the bike around well enough.

After "getting it" I was able to weave within a lane width dragging pegs at highway speeds on a K75C, and loft the front wheel in the transition from side to side on a KLR. (those long empty straight roads in West Texas can get pretty boring, so I added curves when there wasn't traffic around.)

For me it seems important enough to pursue for those riders bent on becoming more proficient.

Not so much for those who are satisfied in herding their bikes, en mass, from bar to bar, in order to manifest their experience of "living the biker lifestyle."
18. ### hippiebrianLong timer

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I could do those things (weave white lines, etc.) on my old ratty hardtail sportster back inthe day (early 80's) and still did not know what countersteering was. I thought it would be cool to be able to do it at speed, so I PRACTICED and got it down. A new rider needs practice, not physics lessons.
19. ### MotoTexMiles of Smiles

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Good for you. Practice makes perfect they say.

The 1000cc Sportster I bought new in 1984 couldn't manage this kind of play. There was too much fork flex to accommodate repeated, rapid direction changes. I would turn the bars quickly and have to wait for the front wheel to catch up. Most disconcerting. Plus you really couldn't lean very far before the pegs dragged anyway due to the low placement, so the comparison of what you were doing and what I described might be apples to oranges. The Sporty is the bike I traded after 10K miles for the K75C. I put 80K miles on the K bike and never looked back.

As for PRACTICE,

Different people learn differently. Everyone has a way that works best.

Some have a preference for visual learning, some get things easier when they hear or read it, still others learn best when physically doing, like you.

Everybody has their primary modality. It is easy to be convinced that everyone else learns the same way you do, because that is all you have as a reference. When teaching it is best to identify the student's preferred modality and use that information to get the idea across. The Rider Course uses all three modalities.

In an internet forum we can only do two, at best.