Upgrading my Ural

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by PetrB, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. PetrB

    PetrB Adventurer

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    Now I doing small upgrade for my bellowed hack. I have long wanted to build a new "modular" cargo system and LL fork. Now my work is in progress. At this point, I has made only one cargo box, which is installed to a special “modular” bracket.

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    You may ask why I call this bracket - modular? It's simple - I can mount any attachments, fitted with special rails, to this bracket. Available box can be quickly removed and installed again. At the top of the bracket, I'm going to set the "basket". But I can mount there also a passenger seat, for example. In general, you can understand its construction from a pictures. The box I was made from an old rusty gasoline canister. I was cut it, then welded the ribs inside, and installed a seal, and cutted off all the excess - and we've got a tidy box. Common budget for all this things – about $3 )))

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    With LL fork, it all a little more difficult. For its manufacture is requires some calculations. I have to get defined trail and have to provide an acceptable suspension travel. At first my friend was manufactured for me some parts. It was two bent fork tubes and a bended tube for swingarm. Using these parts, I drew them in a CAD software to model a fork on a frame of the bike. Following my 3d model I made the swingarm: welded "ears" for the fork tubes and dampers, and welded bushings for the axle.

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    I also had a little remake for existing Ural's shocks. I cut them bottom mounts off, and welded new bottom hubs for the silent blocks. This mounting method seems more convenient to make at home. Now remaining to install silent blocks into the lower fork-tubes bushings, and then weld the upper shock mounts. Then the fork will be assembled and installed on the bike for the final tuning.

    To be continued:wink:
    #1
  2. davet2

    davet2 Been here awhile

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    What CAD software are you using? And are you doing it on your home computer or something more powerful? Thanks, Dave
    #2
  3. PetrB

    PetrB Adventurer

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    This is "Rhinoceros" - it has low hardware requirments, but it is very powerful. I have running it on an old and weak Pentium-4
    #3
  4. PetrB

    PetrB Adventurer

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    So, let's continue. Today I finished my fork tubes by welding the upper shock mounts.

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    I'm not experienced welder yet, so the weld have to be not very accurate, in some places, even the absolutely ugly. Ugly welds must be cutted and welded again.

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    Fork tubes is very thick and solid (wall thickness of about 5 mm), so they are not easy to weld. My MMA-machine provides a current of up to 160 amps, so the mounts I has to weld in several passes.

    Since the welds are not perfect, I'm processes it with the sanding machine. As a result, the finished product becomes satisfactory look. Of course I am a little ashamed to show this to a professional welders:shog. But most importantly, that the connections are highly strength and reliability. And then, under the paint, you will not see that flaws :D
    #4
  5. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad n00balicious

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    I hope you take what I'm going to say in a constructive way and that you practice your welding technique before taking on structural projects like this in the future. You should scrap what you've done and start over after becoming more proficient with your welder because there are serious issues with your welds. They are NOT high strength nor are they going to be reliable.

    Beauty of the weld is only an indication that the weldor knows what he is doing. That being said, crappy looking welds tend to be crappy welds. Grinding off all of the excess buggers and misplaced weld to smooth everything out does not make a stronger connection, it only hides crappy welds. The discontinuous nature of your welds indicates that you can't tell the flux from the filler material in the weld puddle as you are welding. It also appears likely that between your weld passes, you are not getting all of the flux cleaned off of the previous pass before laying down the next pass. This compounds your poor welding technique, as does your not cleaning the rust and scale off of your material.
    #5
  6. PetrB

    PetrB Adventurer

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    If it will be destroyed during the operation, I will change all this, of course )) But all the connections I was tested for strength by using a hammer and 2-ton jack:dhorse I can't destroy this. Craters in multi-pass welds are present only in the "top" layer, as in the "base" weld, all the defects were cutted and re-welded well.

    This mounts was welded like this:
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    I mean, what some craters and scrap in the weld are not weakens all the structure. And the length of welds I was made more longer, than in factory products - it increases strength too.

    Welds at inner side was my mistake. There are not able to be qualitatively welded. And no sense in them, because a lot of metal was melting outside. Overall, I am fully confident in my work.

    The more I have two major technical problems: low voltage supply (up to 180-160V) and low power of this supply - only 3 kW. These limitations will never allow me to work with a thick metal.
    #6
  7. JustKip

    JustKip Long timer

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    The design and bending is awesome, but...
    I agree COMPLETELY with Mr. Bad! I would not consider taking that on the road.
    Your pictures don't show up well enough on my computer, but it looks like you might be using the wrong polarity for the welding wire.

    Anyway, it might be holding up to your tests now, but those welds will almost certianally break after miles of use! I can see many places that cracks can start, and they always do in dynamic load applications.

    Also, something that helps when using a little welder for thicker materiel (slightly thicker than rated, but not twice as thick) is to preheat the materiel to about 250f (120c) so the metal don't absorb the heat from the weld, which also causes cracking of welds.
    #7
  8. PetrB

    PetrB Adventurer

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    Okay, I'll try to cut off this ugliness and re-weld again. Now, during the weekends, a lot of people come here - they uses many of electric heaters - so the supply voltage falls very much, and welding is becoming absolutely impossible.
    #8
  9. PetrB

    PetrB Adventurer

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    On the other hand - now I am inspected my crafts with full predilection. The "holes" what seems like incomplete fusion and cracks in a photos - in fact is the boundaries between different weld passes. I was toasted this thingwith all my heart :pot - that's why the final welding resulting convex - I was cut this convexity. A grooves between the seams were not touched, but there is everywhere pure weld metal without scrap.

    Metal thickness in there welds - about 5 millimeters of melting, no less. Just looks ugly due to the poor electrodes, many re-weldings and low voltage.

    In general, it seems to me, that an remaking of this place is not required.
    #9
  10. DavePave

    DavePave Been here awhile

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    Here in the U.S. we have "junk yards" where old cars are taken apart and sold in pieces. I am not sure if you have those there. It seems to me used Ural parts would be plentiful there.

    As far as the LL front end .... wouldn't it be easier to find a set of an older Ural?

    I am not a welder either. I have done some, but for streering or structural parts I would definitely pay an experienced welder to do it.

    I like your ideas though. Good simple ways to make your bike and travels fun.....:D Keep up the good work.
    #10
  11. PetrB

    PetrB Adventurer

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    Eh you! Advisers:rofl As one of my friends tells, - "каждому подсказчику - по хую за щеку"

    Now I went to cut it all. Cutting, cutting, cutting ... There's nothing bad - only pure metal. A lot of good solid metal))) This is just a specific property of my electrodes, and specific property of my hands - the weld turns solid, but unsmooth, and it is confusing. Finally, I weldet it all back. All electrodes are burned - nothing remains.:dunno
    #11
  12. oppozit

    oppozit Banned

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    Ural parts are plentiful, but since the leading links were mostly made for the export market, they're not that common in the FSU. It's the "newer" Urals that use leading links.
    #12
  13. oppozit

    oppozit Banned

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    He's using an MMA welder - aka "stick welder". Little chance of using the wrong polarity. Just low voltage from a lousy grid connection.
    #13
  14. PetrB

    PetrB Adventurer

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    It is DC machine, I welding at negative polarity by АНО-21 ф2.5))) Weldings lays solidly, but just unsmooth. In the photos it looks horrible, but in reality is everything fine. For example, to weld upper shock mount, I layed 2 electrodes per 1 pass for 150mm of welding. And there is no any poor penetration. Well, maybe a couple of places. IMHO, this is not critical.

    At straight polarity weldings turns bad - only shitting around.
    #14
  15. JustKip

    JustKip Long timer

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    and after your last post I see that your problem IS mostly low voltage, causing you to need to increase the arc length to keep the electrode burning, which makes it hard to draw a consistant bead. Considering what you have to work with I'm not surprised at the appearence.
    #15
  16. PetrB

    PetrB Adventurer

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    Well. Yesterday I has made a new swingarm for LL fork. I do not like old. Its
    torsion inflexibility and strength, all the same, makes me doubt. And new swingarm I was made from box tubing - I mean, what it is more durable. I belive, what it swingarm will be as strong, as it is scary looking)))

    It remains to finish a few small things: weld the strengthening on the mounts of the fork tubes, and slightly round the corners.

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    I will not show this closer - otherwise you will find the pores and cracks again))) There is everything fine) And a couple of little defects I will re-weld later. Now I'm out of the electrodes.
    #16
  17. rebelpacket

    rebelpacket four-stroke earth-saw

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    For what its worth; I've seen many welds that -LOOK- fantastic, but chip right off with a couple whacks from a chisel. I've also seen horrible looking welds (like yours), with good penetration, pass certification tests.

    You shouldn't need to do multiple passes for that I think. Like the idea and the work you've done. You gotta learn somewhere, and this is a great way to start. I applaud you for going into it with gusto!
    #17
  18. DavePave

    DavePave Been here awhile

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    I am very interested to see how this turns out.

    Please keep us updated on your progress.
    #18
  19. diverdown

    diverdown Been here awhile

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    As a welder here in canada I like what you are doing with what you have, most guys now can,t even weld with a stick welder. I like the gas can panniers very thoughtfull. welding with a DC machine on a low grid has gotta suck, I know years ago had to tell the wife to shut off the washer and dryer so I could weld. Now with inverter welders its a breeze. Once again we here in the Americas are lucky. Rebuilt a 2003 Harley sportster last year and some of the welds I came across were terrible and I ended up grinding them out and rewelding. and dont get me started on my china built knock off of a honda 250 xl. diverdown
    #19
  20. PetrB

    PetrB Adventurer

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    That is all))

    I finished my my fork, tested it and eliminate some defects :clap

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    So, when I did all the parts and installed the fork to the bike, then it looked just prefect.

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    But the next day, when I went to test my product, I was very disappointed: at speeds of more than 20mph motorcycle was starts shimmying, and I has absolutely lost control. On bumpy dirt road it was okay, but on the highway, after 20-30 mph, I was not able to ride - it was horrible scary - I thought, what I'll be kill myself by this uncontrolled hack:eek1

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    Don't need to think long, to understand, that the reason for this lies in the lack of fork trail. The reason for the disappearance of the trail proved to be too slow and short shocks. I was extended length of the shocks, then tuned its hydraulics. After another ride I seen, that shimmy became weaker, but did not disappear completely. Then I was pursed suspension springs to achieve adequate rigidity.

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    New ride showed that now, finally, all the problems are solved. Now the hack rides beautifully on any road at any speed. I feel the real pleasure of driving over bumps - the suspension absorbs it without a trace.

    However, on the pavement at 50mph, I feel a slight wobble. So, it will have to sacrifice high-speed qualities to off-road capabilities of the hack. But I don't hurry - I'll be ride more slowly now))

    And now remains to paint all the unpainted parts.
    #20