VBR ticket in OR, Hwy 26

Discussion in 'Pacific Northwet - Where it's green. And wet.' started by fallzboater, Aug 11, 2008.

  1. fallzboater

    fallzboater Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass

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    I got clocked at 61 in a posted 45 mph "Safety Corridor" along Hwy. 26 between Sandy and Gov't Camp (MP 41). The friendly OSP Officer Worthy checked the "VBR" (Violation of Basic Rule) box, saying I was going too fast for conditions, rather than the "Posted Limit" or "Hwy Wk Zn" boxes. I would not contest the speed, but I do take exception to it being too fast for conditions (sunny, straight road, very light traffic, no lane or shoulder closure). He also noted "Safety Corridor $x2" and $206 under base fine. I'm not sure whether they expect me to pay $206 or $412.

    I'm not too keen to appear in the Oregon City Circuit Court, unless it's going to save me quite a bit of money on the ticket or insurance. I normally just chalk it up to road tax. What strategy would you recommend?
    #1
  2. DireWolf

    DireWolf Knees in the Breeze

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    I think your in for $412 boss.

    :lol3

    Sorry, I shouldn't laugh......... :photog


    Seriously that sucks, but it might not be worth fighting unless "VBR" means something more than the others WRT your lisence/insurance.

    Sit?

    oregoncoast?
    #2
  3. fallzboater

    fallzboater Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass

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    :stfu

    Yeah, I guess that's the question.

    I was actually on my way back from the Team Oregon ART course at Pat's Acres in Canby, hah! I may cover that in another post, but I could sum it up by saying: "ART program and instructors excellent, cruisers suck and have no business on a go-cart track with real motorcycles."
    #3
  4. Road Rash

    Road Rash Infamous

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    In a safety corridor I think yer pretty screwed :dunno


    Come to OC though, and I'll buy ya a beer.................just one if your driving or riding :D
    #4
  5. Beerslayer

    Beerslayer Journeyman Bike Knocker

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    I have spent several evenings in that particular court. The judges in that courtroom in general are quite fair, unlike what I have seen in most municipal courts.

    It is unlikely that you will get this one thrown out on a technicality. Your best hope is to ask for a continuance. The first one is always a gimme. The LEO will schedule his cites for trial on the same evening. When the court gives you a continuance, they generally don't check the officer's schedule to see if he is available. He might be on vacation, responding to an emergency, or just say "screw it' and not show up.

    If the LEO doesn't show up, you can ask for a dismissal.

    Worst case is the officer does show up, you get up there like a dummy and stumble through your lame ass defense and get to pay the fine anyway. Always ask for a trial. It costs the courts money, they have to pay the officer overtime to show up, and reduces their take from your ticket.

    If everyone contested their ticket, the tickets would stop. They depend on most people just paying it. There isn't enough capacity in the court system to provide a trial for every ticket written.

    If you are really serious about fighting the ticket join the National Motorists Association http://www.motorists.org/
    They have great ticket fighting resources. At the very least, ask for the continuance and make the officer show up on their day off. Since you are from out of town, it is possible they will think you are not going to show. It has worked for me many times.
    #5
  6. fallzboater

    fallzboater Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass

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    Good tips, BS, I'll try it. What do you think about asking for discovery? Would that make it seem more likely that I'm going to show up?

    I've read the ORS sections here:
    http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/811.html
    It looks like the LEO can choose to write you for the basic rule violation at any speed at all if he feels conditions warrant, or at any speed above the posted limit, regardless of conditions. It's a Class B violation, same as speeding 21-30 mph over the posted limit. I expect that's going to look worse on my record than if he'd written me for speeding 11-20 mph over the limit, a Class C violation. I don't know if it's OSP policy to always use the VBR in the Safety Corridor, or if he just didn't like me.
    #6
  7. old wanderer

    old wanderer Old quick guy

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    I got one of those dismissed over in Ontario earlier this year....was cited for 60 in a 45, but the limit was 65, however the roads did have a snow cover.

    The officer stated he had to do almost 90 MPH to run me down....turns out I was driving my 4X4 PU and he had almost the same make/model as mine...so how unsafe was my 5 mph uner the posted limit, just because the offiecer stated the safe speed for the condition was only 45, and he did 90 MPH...

    Got to fight to win however.
    #7
  8. Beerslayer

    Beerslayer Journeyman Bike Knocker

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  9. fallzboater

    fallzboater Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass

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    I thought we agreed to never, ever, say anything about the kittens.

    I don't know; if I lose, I still lose. It's a nice thought, but I'm not going to get a lot of personal satisfaction out of costing a Gov't agency that I'm already paying for a little additional money. I have had some luck with fines being significantly reduced in court, though.
    #9
  10. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    My experience is if you want to get off, or get it reduced, you HAVE to have an attorney. Eilse you're paying.

    The above is based on 2 trips to Portland traffic court. Maybe OSP is different?

    - In Portland court I was told that each side gets one continuance for free. So if you ask for one, the officer gets one too. So they'd have to not show twice -- which ain't gonna happen. You may want to check with the court in question on this before relying on Beerslayers suggestion.

    - First time I went, all the cases were for 3 officers. All were present. Second time, it was for 2 officers. Both were present.

    I thought I had a cast iron get out for the second one, so I was in a pedantic mood. There was a comical case at the start, guy had a lawyer (and a state funded interpreter even tho his english was more than adequate) and was trying to paint it as a racial profiling case so it dragged on. In the end they split off all the photo radar cases to a diff court room. Since there was a delay, the officer offered up some deal where he'd reduce the tickets if you pled out to move things along. I chose to not take him up on his offer :freaky

    This is where I learnt that you needed an attorney. I'm confident had I got one, it would have been dismissed. Not for the actual basis of my claim, as then every other similar case would be at risk, but they'll dismiss it for some tangental reason if it's clear you're lawyered up, have a decent defence and are willing to go to appeal if necessary.

    Not sure you do in this case but a laywer may be able to get a reduction, eliminate the 2x safety corridor etc. Maybe more.
    #10
  11. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    They stopped doing this for a while but it appears they reinstated the judicial discretion bit. I think it's automatic if you plead guily/no contest, no need to show up in court but I could be wrong. Call the court, they'll be able to tell you this. For sure, if you show in person you can get some reduction if your record is clean. That said, it's a huge time sink. Worst is parking tickets, in P-Town they make people contesting these wait till after all the moving violation cases have been done which is like 4 hours wait.

    I need to get a radar detector again as I've been ticket free for like 5 years now. No idea how.
    #11
  12. fallzboater

    fallzboater Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass

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    :lol3 No such luck. I average about one per year, mostly less than 20 over on open roads, never residential or anything like that.

    It helps some of the time, mostly with slack local cops driving around town with their guns on, or if you have a speeding sponsor ahead of you on the road.
    #12
  13. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    I don't think you'll get any reduction by showing in court then.
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  14. Beerslayer

    Beerslayer Journeyman Bike Knocker

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    My experience is all outside of City of Portland courts, and happens to be mostly in the court in question, Clackamas County.

    I have never seen a continuance automatically granted if an officer just doesn't show. Almost always the judge will throw it out. I have never had an officer ask for a continuance. Either they show or they don't.

    Tony knows a lot more about Portland courts than I do. I think when he goes to town he kicks up his heels and is naughty :shog
    #14
  15. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    What I was trying to say (poorly) was that if you request a continuance, to try and throw them off balance (I believe this was your suggestion, no?) so that they reschedule (hopefully when the officer isn't available) then if the officer doesn't show up for the second date, they get a continuance too, to balance out your one.

    This is how it's always worked in other jurasdictons I've unfortunately had to go to court in. I'm not sure Portland is any different.

    Now, if the officer doesn't show up at the initial date, then sure, I think you get a dismissal .... but this wasn't what you were suggesting is it or did I misread?

    Tony
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  16. Beerslayer

    Beerslayer Journeyman Bike Knocker

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    What I was saying is that if the officer doesn't show up then the case is usually dismissed. Certainly the LEO can ask for a continuance but in all the traffic cases I have had, I have seen about 50% no show, and all but one was dismissed. There is no automatic continuance granted if the officer does not show. I have never seen or heard of an LEO asking for a continuance. I am sure it happens, but mostly I don't think they want to fool with it. It is too easy to go sit out by the Traffic Safety Corridor and catch some dumbass :deal that doesn't realize that besides school zones, they are the only areas in the state that are heavily patrolled.

    Let's face it, if they really wanted to collect a bunch of money writing tickets, all they have to do is go sit out there just about anywhere. A continuous parade of Taxpayers AKA Speeders is sure to go by.

    In one case in Wilsonville court, the "judge" [term used loosely here] was a Wilsonville lawyer who makes extra bucks at night playing traffic judge. My continuance strategy worked. When my turn came, the officer didn't show. The "judge" called the bailiff and ordered him to find the officer and get him in there. To me he said "you sit down and wait". An hour later the officer finally showed, unshaven and disheveled. He looked drunk. He read his little spiel out of his notes. I presented my defense, which was pretty good. The officer was pretty surprised and had nothing to say about it. The "judge" said, "I will take this under advisement", which means "I will convict you in absentia" which he proceeded to do. He didn't want the spectators to see the rest of his chickenshit little parade in which all who enter are pronounced guilty. Pretty much like Beaverton Muni court.
    #16
  17. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    We're talking at cross purposes (nothing new there :evil). Previously you said "Your best hope is to ask for a continuance. The first one is always a gimme. The LEO will schedule his cites for trial on the same evening. When the court gives you a continuance, they generally don't check the officer's schedule to see if he is available. He might be on vacation, responding to an emergency, or just say "screw it' and not show up. If the LEO doesn't show up, you can ask for a dismissal."

    What I'm trying to say (clearly poorly) is that if you ask for a continuance and the trial is rescheduled, my personal experience (MN, AZ and OR from sitting in traffic court and observing other cases) is that if the officer doesn't show for this rescheduled date, you can ask for a dismissal but the judge is more than likely going to allow the cops their continuance. You both get one. If he doesn't show the following time, then it's dismissal time.

    I agree, if the officer fails to show on the initial date, then you get a dismissal, no questions asked. I've just never seen that happen as they are pretty careful scheduling.
    #17
  18. Squirrel

    Squirrel Squirrely Adventurer

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    Don't know if it works but I've heard of folks doing this: Pay the fine but make your check out for one dollar over the amount. They are required to send you a refund check for the overpayment. You NEVER cash their check for $1. Your case doesn't get "finalized" and falls into limbo-land. :wink:
    #18
  19. Beerslayer

    Beerslayer Journeyman Bike Knocker

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    :roflTony, clearly you are cultivating your fetish of just being wrong almost all of the time. :rofl

    You may speak English, but here we speak Mercun. I am a native Mercun speaker and writer. It is no surprise that we just can't seem to understand each other. Why don't you come over and we will open a bottle of Whisky and we can shout it out. Once you realize that you are just wrong, everything will be OK. Perhaps you need an MSL class, Mercun as a Second Language :lol3
    #19
  20. fallzboater

    fallzboater Kiss My Shiny Metal Ass

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    Hey, I resemble that remark! :(:
    #20