viola-tor's MPG problem thread

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by viola-tor, Mar 12, 2012.

  1. TA-Zappa

    TA-Zappa Been here awhile

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    I'm not sure if this has been covered before but tires make a big differnce for my 950 Adv S.

    When running Conti Trail Attack I get to around 320-330 km before low fuel light (that's my check point) but with more dirtoriented tires, MT21 in this case, I drop down to 250-270km before low fuel light.

    I guess that a fast calc that gives approx. from 42mpg (:clap) to 33mpg (:huh). In european sense that is from 5,6 l/100km to 7,2 l/100km.

    This has been calculated over several highway miles in both cases and are very persitent.

    /Zappa
  2. DirtJack

    DirtJack Adventurer

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    Don't know why I hadn't thought of this before. Viola-tor's recent mpg measurements have been made with his 19/17 street wheels mounted and he may be comparing mpg figures obtained with his 21/18 knobby wheels. I don't know if he uses his GPS distance (which is usually a little less than an accurate front wheel odometer) or what the odometer says. At any rate the wheels do have a different outside diameter, but I don't think enough to account for the difference. Needs to be checked out though. :nod
  3. viola-tor

    viola-tor Needs to ride!

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    It's true, I do switch back and forth on wheel size, gearing, and tire type often. Previously this has only had a variation of a 3 or 4 MPG difference max over years of riding with various rubber. I'm now experiencing 10-15 MPG off the "usual." SIGNIFICANT! I'm pretty sure something else is going on...

    Brakes seem fine, chain seems fine... But keep the ideas coming! It'd be great if it was something silly/easy.
  4. srad600

    srad600 Been here awhile

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    I just read through this thread and it seems like you've been chasing this issue for a while. Why not just put the bike back to stock (emissions crap back on) and test the mileage to see what you get? Seems easy enough to do, and will immediately rule out a number of possibilities. It will cost you next to nothing assuming you kept all the parts.:thumb
  5. Katoom119

    Katoom119 Mmmm....Orange Kool-aid

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    Seriously Diek, if you want I'll try and email my tune to you since you can't get up here. I mean it works in mine and it might get you headed in a direction. There's nothing more frustrating than having something that doesn't work right.
  6. viola-tor

    viola-tor Needs to ride!

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    In the process of being the first person in history to RE-INSTALL the SAS.

    I want to try leaving the cannister off for now. The threads are kinda muddled with SAS and Cannister removals kinda merged. Do I leave the resistor I have in place of Cannister Valve? This one behind the triple-tree:

    [​IMG]

    And if so, do I simply plug the SAS hose that would've gone up there and or leave the "S" hose between the TBs???



    OR, perhaps I should go total stock and reinstall the cannister as well, to totally reset from the beginning?

    What say ye?
  7. Wonko T. Sane

    Wonko T. Sane Adventurer

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    I'd put it all back together to try and get back to a decent fuel mileage. If that worked, I'd slowly do a mod at a time to try and figure out where it went bad.
  8. viola-tor

    viola-tor Needs to ride!

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    Yes, I agree, thank you. After I posted that last one I thought "I'm in here, let's go back to the beginning."

    Off to find some fresh rubber hoses!
  9. Katoom119

    Katoom119 Mmmm....Orange Kool-aid

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    Or you can answer my PM and possibly avoid all that....:deal
  10. DirtJack

    DirtJack Adventurer

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    I think the PO gave me all the bits and pieces from SAS and canister removal. You can have those if needed.
  11. viola-tor

    viola-tor Needs to ride!

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    SAS and Canni completely rebuilt and reinstalled. Left the ECU as-is to see where it's at (Akro map with 02s on). Went for a 200 mi. test ride. 28 mpg. Grrrrr.

    I'm having immense frustration attempting to get TunECU to run on my Mac using a virtual machine. I don't know how to "drive" Windows, but it's not just me: A friend stopped by today (who does professional automotive F.I.) and he couldn't get it to work on my machine either, even though it seemingly worked fine on his pro laptop.

    He flashed the stock map to the bike (KM601EU0704501) for me, and confirmed the O2 sensors are on. He showed the following error codes (which I've not seen before. Looked them up in the manual):

    P0113 - Air temp sensor - (output signal too high/short circuit)

    PO122 - Throttle position sensor - (output signal too low/interruption)

    P0130 - Lambda probe - (rear cylinder/malfunction)

    I would like to confirm these on another computer before proceeding. How could all of these get fried at the same time? Wiring problem maybe?

    I've not test ridden with these settings/errors yet.

    That's where I'm at. I apparently don't have a reliable computer to do more ECU stuff, which is making me, well, EXTREMELY FRUSTRATED. My friend suggested I go buy a cheap-O PC laptop just for the bike, and I'm seriously considering doing it, even though I want a PC in my life as bad as want a hole in the head.
  12. Alleycatdad

    Alleycatdad Unbunch yer panties!

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    Well, I could certainly see if your air temp sensor was faulted and the bike thinks it's really cold, that could make it run pretty rich, no matter what map is installed...

    S
  13. bikyto

    bikyto Dans le doute...gaz!

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    If you opened your airbox (and unplugged your air temp sensor) and ran the bike, it will give you an error in the logs. If you clear it, it will most likely not come back.

    Tps, you're probably out of spec. Set it at 0.60 with a warm engine. Engines turned off. That should go away as well when you clear the codes. (do a TB sync before your tps).

    Your lambda, have you ran the bike with them off for a while? If so they're might be fried. If not then it might be a wiring issue. I have a few lambdas on the shelves if you want to try one.

    Have you tried clearing the codes and see what comes back?
  14. Zuber

    Zuber Zoob

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    Flashing it back to the stock map is a good step for your 2-1 exhaust, the Acro map was way too rich and had the O2 sensors turned off.

    I'd also say to remove the pre-filter and put the stock intake horn back on, fuel injection is very sensitive to changes in the intake.

    Your gearing is also too low for high-speed mileage. The best mileage on these is in the 3800-4200 rpm range, using less than 10% throttle. TuneECU will read out your throttle setting and you can mark it on the twist grip to help you analyze this.
  15. Katoom119

    Katoom119 Mmmm....Orange Kool-aid

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    Hey look at it this way: you found something new and it corroborates with what my tuner said, that to get that drastic of a drop in mpg you had to have some sensors go bad.

    Now the question is what to do. If all three sensors are indeed bad, what caused it? Electric surge? Drop in water and they corroded? Shitty luck? I say this because you may be better off replacing all three at the same time instead of one by one in case a bad sensor has, somehow, caused all this in the other sensors.

    You are to the point now where it might be better to buy/borrow a PC so you can run TuneECU. Or, better yet, can you download your tune and any diagnostic stuff and send it to me? I'm wondering if you can download a diagnostic file that Wheeler, or anyone here, may be able to use to confirm the sensors are bad. If you can get a second opinion then I dare say you just solved the mystery.
  16. WilliamSven

    WilliamSven samobilemechanic.com

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    Greetings Forumdwellers..
    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p> </o:p>
    I am Viola-tors friend the professional mechanic …with the fancy laptops that scan vehicles..
    <o:p> </o:p>
    My initial impression of this KTM.. in a rather scattered reply.
    <o:p> </o:p>
    Dont skimp on any cheaper types of budget contact anti ox. Get the $15-$30 a can stuff.

    get at least this stuff, (or something better) put it inside *every* electrical connection on the ktm that has to do with drivetrain control. Before replacing the sensors, do the wiring maintenance. ( I attempt to explain more below ) It will make the bikes ecm feel better.


    http://www.amazon.com/Booster-Electric-Connection-Enhancer-Lubricant/dp/B0002BBVN2/ref=pd_sim_MI_1


    like Jacks fuel pump, or half the sensors or modules I worked on last year… that were failing, its often not the unit but the molex connector..
    <o:p> </o:p>
    So..
    <o:p> </o:p>
    With one of my fast laptop that’s talking to the bike as fast as a T1 line, scan the bike, after cleaning and tweaking all the molex plugs. After they have all been cleaned & treated with a no ox product.. IF, IF IF, its still messing up... then wiggle test it with a scanner that’s working well. ( not that wonky slow windows emulator, you need realtime if its going to drop any connection or module )
    And… no...no second opinion needed from the toughbook pro...its scanning word has always been law …its never failed me. I have two other work laptops, you may use one for a second opinion if you want. I just need it back asap. For best confirm, Use a slightly different KTM software version, a different laptop…But I assure you, its really not needed. You’ve got some wonky electrical connections, or a bad sensors. .. but usually it’s a molex plug oxidized.

    your KTM needs all its contacts - that chemical - and tweaking of the internal pins at each connector 4-7 degree gradual twist or so. . on each pin, inside each connector, with a strong hemostat or needle nose.. just enough to give it resistance going in, but not screw em up.
    Ill show you how before another bike ride once the mud is dry. maybe next weds or sooner.

    After an oxidized plug is serviced, for long term stability... FILL each plug with electric insulating goop. It displaces the bad things that causes grief.


    Hey, and I could have sworn, (at least in my own separate reality,) I signed up on advrider long ago,… seems to have deleted my login info ..maybe if I didnt log in for more than 6 months ??
  17. Unkgd

    Unkgd Been here awhile

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    I believe most of the connectors use weathertight connections ( connectors with rubber seals on the wires and plugs)
  18. WilliamSven

    WilliamSven samobilemechanic.com

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    well, watch the semi fearless way that viola-tor rides, then keep in mind, any connection, any part, is a varied degree of "weather resistant" and not proofed.

    as he pointed out when I was working on his bike "were the kinda riders that break stuff"
  19. WilliamSven

    WilliamSven samobilemechanic.com

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    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> upon reading , back in this thread...
    I did not look at all the ranges for all sensors, thats a bit more thought, time, reading, to the quickie scan and flash that I did that weds. . . . to see if they were within the spec ranges on my laptop scanner.. gotta check and examine each one in real time while its running.

    I just skimmed most of them, that they were reading something, at all.. that you had hooked them up in all your bike surgery.

    It looks like it might be a painfully long chore to check the specs on each sensor, while running, after it reaches operating temp.

    so when you checked, .... How much are the KTM tuner guys getting within a couple hundred miles ?
    <!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]-->
  20. viola-tor

    viola-tor Needs to ride!

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    Hi Will! Welcome to the virtual party! :clap