War and Pieces- Soviet Sidecar Rig Resurrection

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by MotoJ, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. arbalest

    arbalest Adventurer

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    Oppozit,

    Depending on your level of commitment to originality, I can give you a couple of bits of information. Carbs..probably are 26mm. If you can find old Bings, you are lucky. 26mm carbs are not easy to find for these things, but 28's can be made to work ok. You can get "new" carbs for a Chang flathead that will work quite well. You may have to play with jetting, though. You can get three ring pistons (don't bother with original style four ring pistons) from Chang suppliers quite reasonably. The quality will be as good or better than the Russian stuff. Don't believe what you read for piston/cylinder wall clearance. Most sources will say .003". That clearance is for a solo. For sidecar use, go to .006" clearance. If you want to talk to someone who knows how to make the old flatheads run well, contact Chris Jordan at immulmen AT yahoo DOT com. He has a flathead Chang rig that will go 60mph all day long without overheating. He will be happy to help you.

    Mike Lydon
    #21
  2. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    Hi Mike, MotoJ here- I think you meant to address me. Thanks for the post! First I should say that I started this thread after a lot of the work has already been done- I had all the photos and thought the sidecarists on ADV might be interested. I have already sorted out my piston situation. I'll post about that later. Carbs I've decided to rebuild the K302s that were on there. They had the bike running at some point, so I'll stick with those first. I actually found a pair of K37s that I have as backup.

    I'm not too interested in originality- I'm trying to build a daily runner. I'm going to keep the crappy Lithuanian paint job and the KMZ mufflers and kneepads. Budget is a concern, so I'm trying to keep to only the necessities.

    I've been corresponding with Immulman through posts on the RI Forums. He actually gave me a steering damper wingnut rod free! It will probably be the nicest part on the bike. Very nice guy and very knowledgeable!
    #22
  3. oppozit

    oppozit Banned

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    Bottlecap wheels and a torsion-bar sidecar instead of plain pressed-steel hubs and an overarm sidecar.
    #23
  4. nsu max

    nsu max Been here awhile

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    I'm liking this thread!:clap
    #24
  5. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    I was hoping that this bike would be a case of give it a good scrub, new battery, clean the carbs, replace the fluids, etc. but that was not to be. Everywhere I looked was more grime and corrosion, and although the bike would turn over with the plugs out i couldn't get it to stay in any gear, and the kickstarter quit after a couple pokes. The rings made a pop when they broke loose of the rust in the left bore.

    I got the bike hoisted up by a come-along suspended from a ceiling beam. My neighbor made a comment that this reminded him of the famous photo of Ed Gein's barn. Yeesh.

    [​IMG]

    I figured i'd start by draining the oil. None at all.
    [​IMG]
    #25
  6. RomaDakota

    RomaDakota Illuminatus!

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    Opps, sorry about that... :augie :lurk
    #26
  7. Leaf

    Leaf Been here awhile

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    At the risk of tempering your gusto with cynicism.... ;P

    Does it have to be an accurate restoration? From the sound of things, I think I might be inclined to send that engine to the scrapper and put in whatever shaft drive donorcycle engine happens to be available on Craigslist instead. I'd bet you a dollar the compression on that cylinder that was stuck is going to be unacceptable.

    I mean, /if/ you get that motor running, are you going to be able to find parts in a timely fashion the next time it breaks down? I've heard that none of those russian flatheads except the contemporary Urals are very reliable.......

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to be critical or anything. Just kinda sipping a beer and making uneducated observations from the peanut gallery. ;3

    I've always hoped to find a broken down 650 Ural or 'Neepr somewhere for cheap, to put a CX500/650 powerplant into. :p
    #27
  8. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    Well, as all my projects are underfunded and poorly planned, I'm right on track with this one- all gusto and no gameplan!

    Like I said, I'm trying to just build a reliable runner. I'm not going to worry about a restoration, period details, OEM parts, and the like. This is more of a "refurb".

    Parts are actually pretty readily available (but won't be forever) from a few places in Europe, and Chiang Jiang 6 volt models were licensed from the Soviets and many of those parts are interchangeable with the Soviet M72, and still available.

    From folks I've been corresponding with who own these old flatheads, I hear the quality is many times actually better than the later 650 overhead valve jobs. They aren't fast, but they're built to withstand a lot of punishment and be fixed by uneducated peasant soldiers with the factory tool kit and a big rock. Think tractor instead of performance motorcycle.

    Stalin was still alive until '53 and his old guard was still running things for awhile after his death, so no worker wanted to be known as an "enemy of the people" or whatever. The Cold War was making people patriotic still and the disincentives of Communism weren't so apparent that the workers didn't give a shit yet. That's what some folks speculate anyway.

    I mentioned earlier that this project is underway a couple months now, but I've only just started the thread. I'm going to post up the pics I have and get things up to the present...

    So, I'm using the flathead motor for now, but nothing saying an R60 airhead motor won't find its way in there someday!
    #28
  9. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    Ha! Well I haven't cursed you yet- I'm still having fun. We'll see how that goes....
    #29
  10. DaFoole

    DaFoole Erudite inchoate...

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    This is great stuff!!!! :clap

    Thanks for your posts!

    I'll be watching......:lurk
    #30
  11. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    When I unscrewed the transmission drainplug about a pint of clear water poured out, followed by a stream of watery baby poo. Thankfully I missed a photo of that treat, but this sidecover shot gives you the gist.

    [​IMG]

    I figured now it would all have to come apart for inspection and a good cleaning inside and out, so I started disassembling and bagging up the parts and fasteners.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #31
  12. Unstable Rider

    Unstable Rider Moto Fotografist

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    Schweet!

    Just add PINESOL !
    #32
  13. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    With the valve covers off I could see the valves and the cylinder bores. Both bores had pitting where water had sat at the bottom. It was hard to feel by hand, but some WD sprayed in there puddled up where the damage was worst.

    [​IMG]

    Not too much carbon buildup. Supposedly this thing was rebuilt in Lithuania. It didn't look like it had too many hours on the motor. Too bad it sat out in the weather.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The motor turned but sounded pretty raspy. Time to get it out of the frame and on the bench for surgery.
    #33
  14. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    I got the motor heaved up on the bench. It's a ball-breaker. Got the distributor off and the timing cover off. Underneath the cover are the crank and cam timing geras. When the whole motor is turning it's like a big clock.

    [​IMG]

    The cam shaft goes through the larger gear and out through the timing cover through the rear of the distributor points case. The end of the cam shaft has two lobes that open and close the points and provide the ignition.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    On the other end the clutch looked a little worse for wear. Heavy rust particles and black sludge at the bottom of the bell housing.

    [​IMG]

    The outer clutch plate screws were punched all around the edges. Some had been punched three and four times. Whoever put it together really really made sure they wouldnt back out. I ground around the edges of each with a Dremel, but even with an impact driver it took about 15 minutes per screw. My last driver tip broke on the last screw, but I was able to get it out finally.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I was all set with some longer bolts and some nuts I was going to use to relieve the pressure of the springs behind the clutch pack, but they were so cashed that there was hardly any tension left. I could keep the plates pushed in with one hand while I undid the last screw, and they all just fell out at the end..

    [​IMG]

    Not pretty. the friction plate material looked like it was swollen from all the water in the housing.

    [​IMG]

    I was almost afraid to delve further in.
    #34
  15. Leaf

    Leaf Been here awhile

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    Wow, that's the worst clutch I've ever seen. :p

    Don't stop now! Even though I still have my doubts regarding the worthwhileness of fixing that engine, I find this thread very interesting and wait for each new set of pictures with bated breath. ;P

    I'm not one to talk, though. I spent $1000 on a thrashed out hack for a $450 motorcycle that I still need like $200 worth of parts for. >_>

    Those timing gears look pretty good to me, and I bet the valves are salvageable. Is there anywhere to get oversized pistons for those things, if you have to bore it, without paying a million bucks?
    #35
  16. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    Can't stop!
    I already resolved the piston question. That will be revealed in a future post. I'm trying to do this on the cheap too, so I'm keeping a tally. I'll post that up at the end just for information's sake.

    I appreciate any thoughts, though- thanks for replying. Like I said, this is my first time this deep into the bowels of a motor, and I'm really winging it. Better to learn on this thing than something like a Ducati, right?
    #36
  17. fyr

    fyr iRoast Coffee

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    Thats the way to do it Id say! I havent jumped into a project like that either but if I did I figure this is the type of engine to start with..

    Great thread man:clap
    #37
  18. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    Behind the clutch was a pretty massive flywheel, also rusted. The clutch springs sit in the six recesses in the flywheel.

    Besides the rust, it looked like someone threw a handful of sand in the case.

    [​IMG]

    Behind the crank nut is a lock tab washer. I bent the folded part back with a cold chisel so I could get to the crank nut. Next I put a 36 mm socket on the crank nut, blocked the flywheel with my Stanley mini prybar, and gave the end of the longbar a whack with the BFH. That broke the nut loose and I spun it off by hand. The motor I clamped to the bench because trying to break the nut loose without it I was just lifting the motor.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    So far, so good.
    #38
  19. Leaf

    Leaf Been here awhile

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    You tease!!! Show us what is behind the flywheel! :p
    #39
  20. Prmurat

    Prmurat Long timer

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    Great post! Thanks for keeping us teased till the next picture!
    Funny...I should been put away from these flatheads just by looking at your pics....but I am more and more attracted...like a night butterfly to the light.... and its ultimate death!
    #40