War time hacks

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by fyr, Oct 17, 2011.

  1. fyr

    fyr iRoast Coffee

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    Thats fantastic!

    Looks like a good time was had!
    I love the idea that these people who own and care for these machines are not timid about riding them- and with their wives or freinds.
    I especially got a kick out of the water crossing pics.... 70 year old machines,

    just great!

    Thanks for sharing..



  2. gspell68

    gspell68 Long timer

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    It's a very old M-72, probably from the 1940's. The re-inforced sidecar fender and the very triangular straight cut gusset re-inforcement near the rear plunger are the give aways (ones from the 50's had curvature in them). It could be from the war era or even from a different M-72 factory than IMZ like MMZ (Moscow Motor Works) or ΓMZ (GMZ - Gorky Motor Works) and others. KMZ (Dnepr) started M-72 production in the early 1950's, so you can probably rule that one out.

    Definitely NOT a $2000 bike in anyone's dream! If he truly had a $2K, he's an idiot for not jumping on it, but I bet he's lying...
  3. oppozit

    oppozit Banned

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    If it was a MMZ bike it wou'ld have neither the rear gussets nor the overarm on the sidecar. MMZ stopped production in 1941! IMZ continued the overarm sidecar up until 1955/6. If it was from the Great Patriotic War then the engine, gearcases and FD would be in cast iron, Care to add some more guesses?
  4. zundappuk

    zundappuk Adventurer

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    Here is a BMW R75 that was found a few years ago. It still shows its worn but original paint, however the sidecar was not present when found, and the owner has added original sidecar components, and will do so until complete. There are a few others, including Zundapp KS750's still out there in original paint.

    David

    [​IMG]
  5. fyr

    fyr iRoast Coffee

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    Where was she found David?
    Former East bloc country?
    I can imagine what it would be like to stumble across one of these on a rural jaunt..
    I heard that BMW kept great records and a review of the records would show what regiment or batalion this R75 went to..
    And perhaps were it went "missing"

    As for the paint... Leave it as it is! :clap
  6. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    +1

    It can only be original once!
  7. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    Just a wild uneducated guess, a early civilian M72 ?
  8. Mr.Mellow's WildRide

    Mr.Mellow's WildRide Been here awhile

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    That's what SHE said...........
  9. gspell68

    gspell68 Long timer

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    Without a data tag, guesses are all that it will ever be.
    Almost no rig of this age EVER has the original major drive-line components. I've also read that the first M-72 engine/gearboxes were cast iron, but I've never seen one that made it long enough to be in a modern photo in my eight year interest in old Russian iron, so yo can't really date anything by that.
    And as I remember, until around1946-48, all M-72 sidecars were built at ΓMZ (and actually all H-D WLA's that were lent/leased to the Soviets got a ΓMZ sidecar, too!!!) until the sidecar assembly line was passed to IMZ. Yet, ΓMZ apparently continued to make and design bikes. Some of the CJ guys swear that it was the Gorky tooling that went to the Chinese in 1956-57 once the Rooskies were done with it. Never seen a ΓMZ data tag though.
    I've heard that the gussets were added during the war years, because it didn't take long for the the Rooskies to discover that their welding and metallurgy weren't compatible with Rooskie terrain.
  10. BMWzenrider

    BMWzenrider The Road Scholar

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    Here is one which will sadly never be used again.
    It was brought back by the 82nd Airborne after WW-2 and put in their museum at Ft. Bragg.

    The wiring was a mess, and I offered to get it running for them if they would only let me test ride it every once in a while... :evil

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  11. BMWzenrider

    BMWzenrider The Road Scholar

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    And a couple of period photos of the bikes in action:

    This photo is posted above the bike on display in the 82nd Airborne museum:
    [​IMG]

    Taking a few friends along...
    [​IMG]

    Down South...
    [​IMG]


    I personally like the humanity that this photo displays in the midst of an inhumane time.....

    [​IMG]


    And here is a gallery where I have a few more photos, and where I add more as I find them:

    http://bmwzenrider.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Wartime-Bikes/

    Nice thread.
  12. BMWzenrider

    BMWzenrider The Road Scholar

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    And a bit more about the Harley XA clone of the BMW flathead that never saw serial production.
    They have one in their museum here in Milwaukee, and evidently at least a few survived the war and made it into the hands of private owners somehow.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  13. oppozit

    oppozit Banned

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    The first M-72 bikes made by MMZ had aluminium engine/gearcases and final drive housings. The first M-72 assembled by IMZ from MMZ parts had aluminium engine/gearcases and final drive housings. Bikes manufactured by IMZ and GMZ during the war had cast iron engine/gearcases and final drive housings.

    Despite your assertion that "Almost no rig of this age EVER has the original major drive-line components." I've seen units come out of Finland every few years with cast iron engine/gearcases and final drive housings. But at 10,000 Euro for a bike less complete than the one in this thread, I've passed.

    GMZ/GAZ built all sidecars until 1946 when IMZ started building their own chairs. GMZ continued to make bikes and chairs until 1949 when ALL production facilities were transferred to KMZ. Some of the CJ guys spin stories as believable as Arbalet's infamous 1939 KMZ (complete with it's authentic letters)! IMZ transferred it's M-72 production line to China in 1957. The production line was un-needed as they now had the M-72M production line.

    You can mock Soviet welding and metallurgy but through the course of the war they turned the M-72 into an effective unit. The bike as deigned by BMW was half-arsed, but so was their attempts to build a bike for the Wehrmacht. Without copying heaps of Zundapp's superior design, the R-75 wouldn't have existed.

    With some appropriate detective work, a knowledge of when changes occured and the date marks that are found on many ancillary parts you can generally date a bike fairly well, certainly a lot better than forged data plates and forged Technical Passports. I mean, arent you the owner of a 1951 K-750? A bike built before the first M-72 ever left the KMZ factory!
  14. fyr

    fyr iRoast Coffee

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    Fantastic shots...And thanks for the link to your pics!! I checked them out... Wonderful images!

    As for the Ft Bragg R75-I wonder if they just brought it over and dropped it off on the base without anyone really using it..
    Also cool if you can get them to let you "have at it":D

    Great info on the Harley.. I never really paid attention to it before but it looks like a sweet package. There is a piece on it in Cycle World this month (i think its that mag) as I was flipping through. Should have picked it up..
  15. Prmurat

    Prmurat Long timer

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    A nice website in French....presenting some contreversies such as "no Soviet units on M72 before 1945"????. nut nice pics of FN rig, Gnome & Rhone, Soviet Vtwin or slopper!

    http://dnepr.ural.free.fr/controverse.htm
  16. oppozit

    oppozit Banned

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  17. gspell68

    gspell68 Long timer

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    I don't mock their metallugury and welding. Welding of that era just wasn't that great. Look at the KS-750 and the R-75 frames; two different approches to avoiding welds that wouldn't stand up to off-road stresses. It's just a fact.

    And, yep, I have a 1951 K-750 (that's what the paperwork says anyhow!) that looks suspiciously like the later 1957-59 K-750's. However, the K-750 is an IMZ (not KMZ) design dates back to 1949. It's odd that they'd wait 10 years to produce a running bike. Just like they say that M-72 tooling was transferred to KMZ in 1948, but it wasn't until 1952 that they made the first M-72's, with 500 borrowed engines nonetheless???
  18. oppozit

    oppozit Banned

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    An in
  19. Pugsley/Hobbfather

    Pugsley/Hobbfather Been here awhile

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    Hey all, I know that the Thompsons were carried up front, but are there any pics of the side-carry rifle scabbards? I thought they were German, so maybe one or two out there?

    It's been a long while, so fuzzy is the memory...:deal
  20. zundappuk

    zundappuk Adventurer

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    Last weekend I took part in military vehicle show in Overloon Holland.

    Yours truly setting off to the fuel point.
    <a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f274/zundappuk/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_1564.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f274/zundappuk/IMG_1564.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

    Some hacks at the show.

    <a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f274/zundappuk/?action=view&amp;current=P1010200.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f274/zundappuk/P1010200.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

    <a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f274/zundappuk/?action=view&amp;current=P1010199.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f274/zundappuk/P1010199.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

    <a href="http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f274/zundappuk/?action=view&amp;current=P1010195.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f274/zundappuk/P1010195.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>