Weird Sputtering/Grinding at 80+mph -'00 1150GS

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by jdgmntDay, Oct 6, 2012.

  1. larryboy

    larryboy Chopper Rider

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    My tach signal has been lost for awhile now and riding the bike where it feels best has cleared up a little pinging I had too. I rarely use 6th unless I'm going for a freeway slog.


    I don't think you could actually hurt the cat in these things and even if it plugged the exhaust can get around it.


    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=371892
    #41
  2. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

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    well, to that point.

    how you can ride one of these bikes 'hard' and not live near the Autobahn is beyond me.

    I guess I could rip down the interstate in second gear every day.

    just for the data Roger
    I ran my rose colored plug for a about the last 8 weeks, the pinging was getting worse ( even with static timing fully retarded) and 91+ fuel.

    I went back to the steptoe mod jumper, and cleared the motronic, and for last 500 miles it doesnt ping at all, and thats a mix of 89-93 octane fuel being ran through it.
    #42
  3. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    Yes, but you run an 1100GS, which from the Motronic standpoint is a different can of worms. On your bike 30-87a says more fuel and who-knows on the timing. That option isn't available on the 2000 1150GS or any 1150.

    And as for ripping down the interstate in second gear, that would be a very light torque load on the engine so I don't see how that would run the engine hard but would run the transmission hard ...
    #43
  4. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

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    ah yes I forget about the different motronic versions, sorry for the confusion
    #44
  5. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool

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    60 in 6th is about the minimum for me. There are people I have met that do it at 50 which is too low IMO
    #45
  6. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    Here's what I have for the R1150GS
    R1150GS (MA 2.4) :
    - with catalytic converter ... 61 36 8 366 282 ... Yellow ...30 87
    - with catalytic converter (91ROZ) ... 61 36 8 366 623 ...Light Grey ... 30 86 87
    #46
  7. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Love those blue pipes

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    I don't go any faster but improved the pinging (presumably by burning out carbon) by upshifting at higher rpm and accelerating harder, not by cruising any faster (which should be in the feedback-controlled mode and therefore at an optimal mixture to avoid carbon build up).

    Of course, it's possible I completed the break in of my bike between 20,000 and 30,000 miles, reducing the oil consumption (it uses little to none between changes) and therefore reducing that contribution to carbon.

    Whatever the reason, a few thousand miles after I started up-shifting at 5500-7000 rpm and routinely accellerating harder, the bike was running better with less pinging.
    #47
  8. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    You make a good point. Hard acceleration requires 30-50 lb-ft of torque depending on the gear, more than that required even at 75 mph steady.

    However, under hard acceleration, the mixture is richer by 15% ish.
    #48
  9. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool

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    And in Canada the spec. is NO plug.
    #49
  10. manfromthestix

    manfromthestix Lost in Space

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    I've got a 2001 1150GS and read this thread out of curiosity; never hurts to know more about your machine in my mind. After reading it I thought, hmmm, what kind of plug does my GS have in it? Well, here's the under-seat stuff:

    [​IMG]

    For the first time, I noticed that the stickers there identify the bike as a 2000 model year, but the VIN sticker says it's a 2001 and the title etc. agrees. WTF? Anyway, this is what the fuse box looks like:

    [​IMG]

    Hey, where's my damned coding plug?!? Maybe this is a Canadian spec bike?? I guess I never even knew I needed one because the bike purrs like a kitten and pulls like a tractor right up to the rev limiter. I bought this GS used in late 2005 with only a few thousand miles on it and it's just about to roll over 50,000. It burns a little bit of oil, just a puff of blue at cold start-up, but it only burns about 1/2 to 3/4 of a quart between changes at ~5,000 to 7,500 mile intervals. I've run full synthetic in it since it had about 12,000 miles on it.

    The only time I've ever experienced any pinging was when I had to put less-than-optimal fuel in it, and then it was only noticeable under heavy acceleration, but it's not violent as the PO described (regardless which gear it's in). I routinely hit the rev limiter when romping through the gears, but can't even get close in 6th. I've found that 6th is only really useful above 65 or 70 miles an hour, and even faster if you're climbing hills, otherwise it just isn't up on the torque/power curve and feels like it's chugging. The "sweet spot" is between 3500 to 4000 RPM and that's higher than the speed limit around here in 6th. I can't remember any unusual performance issues or noises when I'm hard on the throttle in 6th, no pinging, just wider than average grinning. I've had it up to 125 mph indicated and it's still nowhere near the rev limiter before it runs out of power to overcome the drag; the GS is not particularly aerodynamic. It does make a clattering noise under hard acceleration if the throttle bodies have gotten out of synch, could that be the same thing you're referring to?

    So anyway, I've never fooled with the fuel mapping and never knew that's what that empty socket was for. I lived for years in Wyoming where I routinely rode from 3000 feet elevation to 11,000 feet and more with zero fueling issues. The fuel injection and motronic seemed to keep up with the elevation changes just fine, unlike my carbureted bikes. This bike has the stock GS intake tubes and a K&N filter. I've noticed when the filter gets dirty I lose power at higher revs, so I try to keep it pretty clean. I found this when I checked it a while back; wonder how many trips the ferking mice made between the dog dish and airbox to put two cups of chow in there?

    [​IMG]

    I also note that the bike runs better when I've got the valves adjusted properly and the throttle bodies balanced at around 3,500 to 4,000 RPM where I do most of my riding. If you've already checked and adjusted all these things and eliminated other potential issues (bad bearings someplace, worn clutch shaft, etc. that causes pinging, clattering, or wobble under hard acceleration) then the only thought I have is that carbon build-up may indeed be contributing. The bike does have a lot of miles and shite happens to our arteries as we get older.

    I hope that offers some perspective or help. Good luck with your diagnosis!

    Doug
    #50
  11. jdgmntDay

    jdgmntDay Adventurer

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    Hey guys. So I gave my bike a week or so to test out the latest tweak - I made the steptoe jumper Roger was talking about and I can say with 99% confidence my bike is completely cured. It developed a bit more of a surge because of it, but nothing unmanageable. And it's almost time to readjust the valves and sync throttle bodies anyway, pretty sure that will help tons.

    Thanks for all your help, I couldn't have done it without you guys. -Ben
    #51
  12. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    When you get a minute, try the 30-86-87 jumper. It might be better.
    #52
  13. manfromthestix

    manfromthestix Lost in Space

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    Hey great, I'm glad to hear that it's running well now!

    But the question remains - why does mine run so well without the jumper, and it took a jumper to make yours run well? :huh Have you or the previous owner done some kind of modification to the bike that made the jumper necessary?

    I also wouldn't forget about the possible influence of carbon build-up; with as many miles as are on your bike, that could very well be part of the underlying issue. I've used SeaFoam before and that seems to be a very good product.

    Let us know if your throttle body sync/valve clearances were way off or anything changes after you do the tune-up.

    Take care, happy to hear you're riding without that annoyance! :clap

    Doug
    #53
  14. jdgmntDay

    jdgmntDay Adventurer

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    Reviving this thread from the dead again, though mainly this time so new readers can see the history I've had with this problem.

    I've got the pinging back again. I didn't change anything since the time I thought it was cured with the steptoe mod. Earlier in the post, Roger, you had said to try the 30-86-87 steptoe mod. Which pin is number 30? I'd love to try that out fix next.

    I'm scared to squirt water in my bike, but that's the next step if this new jumper doesn't work. About SeaFoam, I have a friend who's a huge proponent for SeaFoam. Where would you recommend applying it? In the tank, straight in the cylinder head, through the air cleaner? Side note: if carbon buildup is a candidate for something like this, why did it take 146k miles to start, and if I clean it off, won't it just come right back? Spark plugs are dirty the instant they're used, aren't my cylinder walls going to be filthy again just as quickly?

    Since I last wrote, I just adjusted the valves, and while some of them were off a tiny bit, nothing was too extreme. After the valve job, it didn't seem to have any affect, positively or negatively.

    After a bit more forum searching I've found this is an extremely common problem with the single cylinder boxer design. And reading some of the fixes, it's becoming soul crushing. I love tinkering on my bike, but I don't have the time or the facilities to do any of the major work, so I'd have to take it to a dealer with a list of stuff I've tried and say "Make this stop doing that" and shovel money at them until they're done. Or trade it off and get a new bike. I love the "soul" my bike has and I think the 147k miles on it (only 13k of them are mine) are a mark of pride. But after riding a brand new R1200GSA for a week during my vacation to Germany, it was really nice not having any quirks or problems.
    #54
  15. kadesean

    kadesean eyesuck

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    I think the carbon cleaning others speak of applies to measurable layers of carbon that one might see on a poorly tuned bike or one with such high miles. Yes, a newly cleaned piston crown will get filthy shortly after restarting, but if you have tens of thousands of miles of a small buildup of carbon then you get to a point that the carbon is 'measurable' and can have a detrimental effect.
    #55
  16. jdgmntDay

    jdgmntDay Adventurer

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    Okay, I'm back. I ran some water through the offending cylinder in attempt to clean it. After putting it back together I took it up and down the highway to give it a test. I think it may have helped a tiny bit, though I still have the pinging. Either I'm noticing it more than I have the last couple months, or it's gotten worse. It happens in 5th and 6th ("E'th") about equally now, and starts at around 4k rpm, so the fastest I can go without it happening is around 80mph. It's getting annoying.

    So in my last attempt, I went back to the cat code plug that I thought I had fixed. I used the "steptoe mod" picture on page 2 of this thread, thinking that must have been plugs 30 and 87 that Roger was talking about. After looking at the "little yellow bastard" that's supposed to connect 30 and 87, I noticed mine is in the wrong spot. I don't have a map of which pins are which, but I think I've pieced together where they are. Can someone confirm this for me?

    [​IMG]

    To try the 30-87, I would hook the center-forward and the right-middle pins, correct? The 30-86-87 would be those two plus the left-middle pins?
    #56
  17. jdgmntDay

    jdgmntDay Adventurer

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    Okay, I switched the jumper around to 30-87 and reset the motronic unit, and the bike does run a little better. Now I can get up to 90-95 in E'th before getting the pinging, and it's difficult to get it to ping in 5th (though it still will if I bury the throttle on flat ground). How long does it take the motronic unit to stabilize after being reset? Is it something I can adjust all the jumpers, rip up and down the freeway for 10 miles, then try a new jumper setting? Or do I have to ride 500 miles for the unit to get used to the new setting?

    But after looking at the pin layout on my bike vs where I think the pin numbers are, I must be off somewhere. On my map, number 86 is just an empty hole. So does the new map look something like this? (the new red lines on the plugs are the connector spade orientations)

    [​IMG]
    #57
  18. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Long timer

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    Try some RT intake tubes. I swear they worked for me.
    #58
  19. k1w1t1m

    k1w1t1m Kiwi

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    [​IMG]

    Ignore the descriptions because it's for an aftermarket chip but the pin numbers are correct. Though it is looking at the ccp base from the front of the bike.
    #59
  20. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

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    I think this is 30-87a ( what you showed also)

    [​IMG]
    #60