weird startup

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by h2only, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. h2only

    h2only Adventurer

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    been cold here and started the F800gs up today, turn the key, all the instrument gauges move and light up as normal. Hit the start button, one click of the starter, nothing, hit it again, fired right up. Then right after it was running, the gauges light up again and the tach and speedo go all the way through their sweep, then all is normal.

    Did this a few times with the same results. Thinking maybe battery, I turned it off and plugged in the battery tender, the charger showed full charge after about 10 seconds.

    Any ideas what would cause this?
    #1
  2. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    I would say loose batt connection, as it would not click with either sidestand disconnect, or kill switch depressed.
    #2
  3. supertorro

    supertorro Adventurer

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    I've had the same experience, but only since installing a lithium battery. Any time the ambient temperature drops below 10 celsius, I have the same symptoms. If I apply a load to the battery for a minute or two it seems the battery warms up enough to crank the engine and still maintain power to the instrument cluster. A long ride seemed to cure it until the battery ran down enough from the short commuter trip.
    #3
  4. ScubaStevieG

    ScubaStevieG 2wheeledadventurer

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    I'd suggest that it probably has more to do with battery strength/health than anything else. This is my first winter with my 800GS and it does the same in the cold (sub 35 degrees). It is especially noticeable if the heated grips are on during start-up or the aux lights are on (dumb yeah I know). I don't know yet whether the stock battery is underpowered or whether mine is going bad. Heavy and even standard weight oil will exacerbate the problem if the bike is cold... These bikes have a boatload of electronics that power on at the same time that the starter is struggling to bring the beast back to life so it doesn't surprise me that the amperage drops almost instantaneously for a few moments - enough to reset the computer.

    I noticed similar behavior on my 1150 GS right before I replaced the battery... instant fix thereafter even when temps were in the teens or near 0. I'll probably be replacing my battery shortly (its an 09 and OE as far as I know). Car Batteries have 2 ratings and the CCA cold cranking amps is the one you care about the most in this weather - I'd assume that motorcycles do the same.

    On the li-ion battery - I've seen on many camera forums conversations about how performance of li-ion battery packs degrades more than nicad in cold weather ( sub freezing temps), so it wouldn't surprise me if that same effect was manifested in a big bike battery.

    #4
  5. h2only

    h2only Adventurer

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    thanks for the info, it has been below 30 degrees for a solid 2 weeks here. For some reason I always decide to start my stored cars, bike and the such on the coldest days of the year.:huh
    #5
  6. ScubaStevieG

    ScubaStevieG 2wheeledadventurer

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    By the way -

    There are some interesting threads on batteries here: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=415604 cntrl+f battery and you'll get right to them on the sticky.

    I read through a few on my phone this morning and I came up with a few nuggets of useful information and extrapolated a bit to our common problem:

    1. the 800gs and beemers in general have a low charging voltage - that doesn't play nicely at lower temps when batteries require higher voltage to charge. Add on a few accessories grips etc and over short rides you're not returning your battery to a fully charged state. I can't find the thread with the chart at the moment. will try to add it here.

    2. the 800 has some nominal current draw even with the key off. Batteries also have an inherent "degradation" over time this can add up to a not insignificant amount if you are just starting your bike instead of taking it for a spirited ride at RPMs high enough to charge fully.

    3. there are entire threads on how much the 800 battery sucks, fails, is replaced under warranty etc. I never found out whether there was a part change in newer models.

    4. found some data backed up my Li-Ion statement earlier - It makes a great Southern state battery but wont work nicely in the colder climates. Also I learned that Li-Ion batteries remain at full voltage output until they die whereas a AGM or acid battery will slowly degrade giving you some warning that the battery is tired. Tremendous savings in weight is the tradeoff.\

    Hope this helps!


    #6
  7. duffs

    duffs I have a beard

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    A chap whose trip from London to South Africa I was following has a video featuring the issue you've described - in his case it was the stator/alternator not charging properly - video here
    #7
  8. MikeMike

    MikeMike Long timer

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    I had the same situation here in tropical temps. It was an early warning my original battery was wearing out after 3 and a half years of stellar service.
    #8
  9. Steveman

    Steveman Been here awhile

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    This is very common with lithium batteries, they are sensitive to low temperatures ...

    Regards Steve
    #9
  10. h2only

    h2only Adventurer

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    that video shows EXACTLY what mine is doing. So........are these covered under warranty?

    Thanks
    #10
  11. MikeMike

    MikeMike Long timer

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    You better hope so. Rumor has it Motorrad has installed defrillators in the parts departments worldwide as their gift.
    #11
  12. Kerfuffle

    Kerfuffle Mostly Harmless

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    That happens to me on occasion when the bike has been sitting for a week. Doesn't happen after the first start. Doesn't matter if I use the battery charger, so I suspect its the battery itself.
    #12
  13. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    It is a known issue, that the stock R/R is not charging the battery with high enough voltage. The battery will sulfate over time, and die a slow death. Your symptoms are in line with that, but most likely caused by a low charging R/R. You put a new battery in there, and it will happen again. How long time..... no body knows. Have a look here..

    http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=781564
    #13
  14. Steveman

    Steveman Been here awhile

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    Your knowledge is astonishing, mr. ebrabaek, sir! :clap:freaky

    Regards Steve
    #14
  15. MikeMike

    MikeMike Long timer

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    How long?
    In cooler temps it won't last another month.
    If you are a betting man...:evil
    It is giving you a heads up, next thing you'll find starting to be a slower and "Do I really have to crank that damn starter motor" PMS type affair.:deal
    And then one day...nada.
    And it will happen in an interesting place.
    Fortune telling is easy!
    #15
  16. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

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    Go buy yourself a cheap multimeter. Check the voltage of your resting battery. It should be at least 12.5 volts, preferably higher. Check the battery when cranking the engine. It should not drop below 10 volts. Check it again with the engine running. I would expect some where around 14.4 volts.

    Those are ball park numbers and there are posts that are more exact with the regulator used on the F800gs.


    If you are getting around 14.4 volts with the engine running, it is not your stator. If the voltage is in the 15 teens or higher, it is the regulator. Readings in the 13 teens with a partially charged battery, your stator is probably going. Voltage the same as your resting battery voltage, is a clue your stator is shot.


    Big drops in voltage at the battery when cranking, usually means a battery short. Battery voltage drops below 12.5 after being fully charged indicate a bad battery.

    Until I did some voltage checks, I would not rush out and buy something yet. Temps in the low 30's makes the initial start on my bike a slow affair.
    #16
  17. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Thanks for those kind words Steve. In all honesty, our fellow inmate Joel Weismann did most of the info in the beginning. I sort of just ran with it. I did fix radars in the Danish air defense though....:D:D
    Thanks
    #17
  18. Steveman

    Steveman Been here awhile

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    You are welcome. Yep Joel's knowledge is great. But if you (we) learn from him its then OUR knowledge as well. :D
    And, whats important, to have a good humor. And you have. Thats why I like reading your posts. Simple as that.

    No clue about radar systems but I worked as aircraft mechanic so our jobs were somehow linked.... :freaky

    Regards Steve
    #18
  19. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Thats funny.... You made'em go up....... I made'em go down..... :D:lol3Cheers....:clap:freaky:freaky
    #19
  20. Steveman

    Steveman Been here awhile

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    lol didnt see it that way, but hey u are right... somehow :D
    :1drink
    #20