What bike is better or equal to a V-Strom 650?

Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by amk, Nov 12, 2012.

  1. cug

    cug --

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    I found the Honda NC700X to be a more compelling offer. Granted, it's a smaller bike, but felt like better quality and is actually cheaper and gets better (though not by much) mpg. Less power though.

    Other than that, if we are talking full price Wee, it's not a big jump to some other interesting bikes, though they are quite different. If we are talking about Europe, there are quite some good options around. US - not so much.
    #61
  2. blacktiger

    blacktiger Tigers R great.

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    Hey, isn't that THE original GS? All those BMWs are just imposters.
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  3. kantuckid

    kantuckid Long timer

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    The Honda is not very popular in comparison the the stromI don't own a strom (yet) but I have to say the fasteners are going to be made to standards. and the seats are still there on high mileage bikes I see on ebay, and the rims likewise and they are ALU afterall, and the seat foam comes from the foam factory like the rest of bike seats.Want to talk bad seats then talk about the BMW's I've been riding. They are designed by women or neutered men. Who has these better materials you speak of? I'm not crusing for an argument,trying for some specific discussions here!-I've just been riding & wrenching a long time & find comments a little weak. Layout is too tall for me stock but otherwise what does an adv bike look like? Weight high?Hmm. Cooler I might agree with but where would you place on that bike? Fairings on an adv bike? Why? Cheaply made overall? i tested one & really liked the ride but I've only been riding since 1963, so lots to learn. Tires are crap. The wheel paint looks like rattle can glossy black and the engine arrangement could "look" better & have better ground issues covered. :ear
    #63
  4. cug

    cug --

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    The Honda came to the US market this summer. There is absolutely no way to tell how popular it will be over time. Maybe more, maybe less. So far the aftermarket manufacturers seem to think it's a model worth developing for.

    Regarding weight: not many manufacturers really think about how to make these things better. Tank goes in the classic position on top of the engine. BMW and Honda have gone different ways and for very good reason. The F models have the tank under the seat. The first I saw that was on the Honda ST1100 which had most of the tank behind the engine and under the seat. It felt incredibly nimble for it's weight of 300kg.

    The Strom is just that: take lots of budget parts of the shelf, bolt them together without much love or purpose design, sell a bike. Fortunately for Suzuki they have made a few good decisions and have a great engine to bolt in so it is a well selling bike, but customers show pretty clear how they think the value is - resale on these is fairly low and dealers have to discount even the current model to be able to sell them. Not a good sign, but I guess typical for the target customer group.
    #64
  5. sierraoffroad

    sierraoffroad Long timer

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    i think the vstrom 650 is in a league of its own. If you want a decent base point to build upon for commuting and gravel road exploring then the weestrom is it. to asnwer the question as to equal... perhaps a gladuis, or sv650. better option for more exploring and 2 up would be the super tenere.
    #65
  6. ph0rk

    ph0rk Doesn't Care

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    Yhe NC700X was about the only thing that came to mind. It certainly felt light to sit on.

    For me, the lack of a manual transmission ABS model was a killer, but that probably won't last. When a standard shift ABS version hits the states it will take off - unfortunately it won't be for 2013. Too bad, I'd be all over it. I'm not sure how i'd like the 1/2 car motor, but I'd sure check it out. Similarly, an ABS versys would be great. Neither of these is likely to have the stability the dl650 has on the highway, though (that's the long wheelbase right there).

    Still not getting the cheap fasteners thing. Fit and finish seems about the same on the newer dl650's as the nc700x.
    #66
  7. cug

    cug --

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    That was my complaint as well. I'm not interested in the bike anyways, but it's just again that absolutely stupid Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki/Kawasaki policy to only bring half their EU models with half the options to the US.

    That was the experience when taking apart a 2006 Wee. Super crappy fasteners on the fairing bits, lights, around the tank. Some rusting factory bolts, cheap chain adjusters (granted - same as on most other bikes), bad mirrors, soft metal on the passenger foot peg hangers (bent very easily), ... we sold the bike two years ago, so that's pretty much what I remember.
    #67
  8. Pecha72

    Pecha72 Long timer

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    Mind you, all these 600-700 "adv" bikes are built to a price point. Honda's XL700 Transalp has tank side cover plastics fitted on one end by velcro straps. And no adjustability on front suspension, which is pretty soft. Personally I wasn't too impressed with the new NC700X suspension either. I don't know where you got the idea, that only Wee has crap this and that. In fact they all share pretty crappy components, if you start to compare with some high-end stuff. But they still get the job done, obviously not for you, but for most people.
    #68
  9. Pecha72

    Pecha72 Long timer

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    The specs say the NC700X is 4 kgs heavier than the new DL650 (both are curb weights). And its about 50hp vs. 70hp – me, I´d never cared about high horsepower, but the test ride on the NC still told me that compared to the DL it´s gonna feel exhausted heavily loaded on the motorways at least. And frankly it was bordering useless outside the tarmac, can go there no doubt, but really not further than your average streetbike can. The suspension is built for street only.

    Other than those, it felt like a nice bike in many ways, fuel consumption according to tests is very low, and at that price, I´d be surprised if it doesn´t become popular.
    #69
  10. kantuckid

    kantuckid Long timer

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    "target customer group"-hmm...might be me?
    "bolt together w/o much love or purpose"-hmm,hmm...love in the factory?
    "well-selling" BUT "dealers have to discount"-hmm,hmm,hmm...so, your agreeing they sell well but have to be discounted for the kind of people that but them? They all have to get rid of stuff according to their business plan which for some includes discounting...
    "budget parts off the shelf"-hmm...meaning which parts? I guess you know that many of the same companies make the parts for the mfg's...
    "not many mfg's really think about how to make these better"-hmm...now that's really a doosie!
    OK, now you can start in again on stroms...:D
    #70
  11. ArmSC

    ArmSC Been here awhile

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    I find it funny that everyone tries to compare the Wee to bikes costing twice as much and then bash it. When I was looking at a new bike I liked the Wee because of what it is. A very capable all around bike thats affordable. Im not sure there's much else that is close to a Wee that compares right now.
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  12. cug

    cug --

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    If you can afford any bike you like, why wouldn't you compare? Sure, you get a lot of bike for the money with the Wee, but sometimes that doesn't cut it for some people.

    It's pretty much the same as everywhere else: you get 90% for 90% of the money, to get the remaining 10% you have to lay out another 90% money ... :deal
    #72
  13. sierraoffroad

    sierraoffroad Long timer

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    all I can say is there is no comparison to the wee. as said it is in a league of its own. I've had my bike since new (late Nov. 07). it has 50,000 trouble free miles. loaded up with camp gear and i get gas mileage in the mid 50's close to 60 mpg. i can hang with guys who ride 1000 cc bikes all day and I'm not beating on the bike what so ever. no where near redline. I have put over 1500.00 into it by adding luggage and other farkels, but those have simply improved the machine for my needs.
    #73
  14. kantuckid

    kantuckid Long timer

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    just look @ where you'd be if you spent the other 90% toward a better bike instead of a strom:D
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  15. Pecha72

    Pecha72 Long timer

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    That's what the manufacturers will want you to believe.

    But if the Wee's philosophy was 90% bike for 90% of the money, it would not sell much. But think 80-90% of the bike for half the money, then you get a lot of people interested. Being one of the most bulletproof bikes out there comes as a bonus.
    #75
  16. sierraoffroad

    sierraoffroad Long timer

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    ya know this pissing match reminds me of something: a man walks into a tea shop in france. the shop keeper tells him about all the tea flavors and aromas. how some are 10% aroma and 90%substance.
    so the guy who walked in says " where I come from we have F A R Teee , 10% substance and 90% aroma. the
    S h i tee is 90% substance and 10% aroma.

    its good to know we can have these pissing matches about the wee, because without it there isn't anytthing out there unless you use the sv650 as a table of measure.:lol3
    #76
  17. cug

    cug --

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    You have very obviously never worked in producing anything significant. This is the case for pretty much everything produced, even for something as simple as a hammer.

    As soon as you try to get the very last glitches, cheapness, ... out of the product, you spend so much more time, money, processing, and so on, that it does end up costing twice as much. You might then recover part of that cost by selling in numbers, but that's not often possible for high end products.

    I actually think it's about 70% of the bike for 70% of the money. Because it does not cost half. I costs at least 70% of the comparable ones. And haven't owned one, I would say it's about 50% of the owner satisfaction of my Tiger Roadie, while still being 70% of the price.

    And there are people that don't like to settle for this. And people that don't have to. That's why some people even privately buy Craftsman and others buy Snap On. There are people for whom it is important to get higher quality, higher satisfaction from something they bought and they might not get satisfaction out of something that might run for 50k miles without a problem, but those were the most boring 50k miles in their motorcycle careers.
    #77
  18. Nookie

    Nookie Adventurer

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    Great debate and the points raised make for interesting reading. I bought a used wee for $3000 with 9000 miles on it. I bought it not as my primary bike but as an inexpensive choice for a daily commuter (50 miles roundtrip) and for a bike to cross into Mexico on. For me its not an exciting bike to ride. Its probably one of the sleepiest bikes to ride that I've owned. Its more like an inexpensive but very functional and reliable tool. Would I buy a new one? Absolutely not. I'd spend the extra's $'s and get a Triumph or Super Tenere if I was buying new. But for the money that I spent on the wee I don't know of another bike that I could have bought at that price point, that could give me that bulletproof peace of mind to go to those out of the way places without sweating a possible break-down. Eveyone has different criteria when buying and at the time that was mine.
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  19. Pecha72

    Pecha72 Long timer

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    Your experience of the Wee is from the 'older' model, right? The Tiger800, as well as others, should be compared to the 2012-> model, which has improved in many areas, so overall it's definitely a better bike than the 04-11 models.

    BTW, Tiger800, GS700/800, Versys, NC700X, Tenere660 etc, are not 'high-end' products of their manufacturers, either. They all have pretty basic components.

    And finally, the Wee can be compared to bikes that cost twice as much, at least according to German Motorrad-magazine, that just pitted it against Tiger1200, Crosstourer1200 and Stelvio1200. It lost out to the Triumph & Honda, but was pretty much on par with the Guzzi, and price difference in Europe is nearly double to all three 1200cc bikes.

    But sure I understand, that it does not appeal to everyone. It was never even intended to be the best in any certain area, but to do well in most areas, so naturally it has its limits. "Wheels made out of cheese", etc. is still a bit off, or at least you'll have to first test, how good stuff the competitors are equipped with.
    #79
  20. amk

    amk Been here awhile

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    Do you really think all bugs and glithes were eliminated out of those triumphs and beemers? Good luck to you.

    That is exactly the opposite way, for 1.5 or 2 times more money you will buy 200% more of bugs and glitches in real than you would ever have heard the Wee has in the web. That is why they are excluded out of my search.
    #80