What Dual Sport should Honda build next

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by itrack, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. 1 Bored Clerk

    1 Bored Clerk Mama, I'm goin fast!

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    I just read this whole thread because it is a total trainwreck! :lol3

    I would love for the Japanese manufacturers to really flex their muscle in the DS market...just like they did with the sportbike market. My 95 Honda CBR600F3 was probably around 460lbs with 92 hp. Now 600's are, what, 370lbs with 125hp? I wouldn't mind every DS bike dropping 20% of their fat. That way I would feel better about not dropping 20% of my fat. :D
  2. tHEtREV

    tHEtREV Captain Awesome

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    Do not post PMs.

    The "P" stands for private, and it will result in you getting a lengthy ban.:deal

    I wouldn't worry about him to much, a lot of people have apparently gotten childish PMs from him.

    He has just come of a ban for his behavior and it looks like he hasn't learnt anything so I am guessing he will be back at banned camp very soon.

    What is it with people with "ADV" at the begging there user name anyway?:lol3
  3. Ned1

    Ned1 Lend Me Yu Choppa

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    PM sent to you Rev
  4. tHEtREV

    tHEtREV Captain Awesome

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    I'll be posting it here when I get it.:lol3
  5. Kelly Shoemaker

    Kelly Shoemaker rummy

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    I think a bike with a comfortable seat wide in back for the distance narrow tward the tank for single track and low enough to reach ground. 500 cc with a kick and electric start for those times in death valley when your battery dies. 6 speed gear box. As light as the ktm bikes in its class. A slip on muffler placement so it does not melt blenkers and a pro moto billit style rack that a giant loop bag could fit proper. A head light that you could accually see with

    It will never happen
  6. jon_l

    jon_l Long timer

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    Learn to use the ignore feature folks. It saves reading a load of troll sh*t.
  7. Night Falcon

    Night Falcon Adventure NZL

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    +1 on the ignor feature....life is way too short to waste time on plonkers.

    But to the task at hand....I went and sat on the new CRF250l yesterday and thought it was a nice bike. I spoke with the salesman and asked him if he ever thought we would see a 650R with FI and some adventure styling (a bike I would ditch KTM for) he said it could be highly likely but Honda were waiting for hell to frezze over first.....optermistically I replied "so there is some hope then?" :D
  8. BogeyMan

    BogeyMan Been here awhile

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    We seem to have gotten a little off-topic here, but I'll chime in anyway.

    I go on a handful of D-S rides every year. It's pretty much 60% KTM (or in my case, Husaberg), with the rest of a group made up of older Yamaha's (450s mostly from when you could actually get a plate for them in CA), a few Husqvarna's and there's almost always two or three Honda 650's (either XRLs or XRRs).

    None of them are what I'd call "full-on" adventure bikes, but any of them could be. I wouldn't take my GS places where I've been on my Husaberg. Conversely, I don't want to do 500 miles on my Husaberg, but I'd happily do it on the GS (although there are some who've done some pretty amazing adventure rides on the FE570).

    Like they say, you can't please everyone, all of the time, but if *ANY* manufacturer has a "real" adventure bike right now, I'd say it's KTM. Either one of the 450s or even the 500, plus a few hundred $$$ in accessories and you've got a medium distance adventure bike.

    In my opinion, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha & Kawasaki have all missed the boat. BMW is making a decent effort (with their new Husqvarna 650s based off the old BMW F650 single engine).

    Like I said - if you want a street-legal (at least in CA - the largest motorcycle market in the US, I'm told), KTM has the market pretty much cornered.

    So, to answer the original question, if Honda wants to build a competitive dual-sport - they should look towards KTM for some good ideas.
  9. bk brkr baker

    bk brkr baker Long timer

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    Something in a Honda-ized version of the JBS 1000 cc thumper.
  10. ADVNCW

    ADVNCW Banned

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    The one good idea from Honda of course is the Dakar 450x. If a version of that ever was put out for retail....:clap
  11. Wallachian Spikes

    Wallachian Spikes Long timer

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    My dream bike would be for Yamaha to build a D.S. bike around the 700 Raptor power plant with a six speed. I'd be just as happy if Honda built something similar.

    I'd also be very excited about a 450 D.S. bike from any of the Japanese manufacturers. I know KTM has made their EXC line road legal but, I'd like something I didn't have to change the oil every 10 hours. A KLR 450 with a 6.1 gal. tank & 3,000 mile oil change intervals would be high up on my list.

    Sorry for bringing up so many other brands in a Honda thread. I'm just not shackled to any one particular brand. Honda does make great bikes & if they build either of the two bikes I spoke of, I'd buy one with a quickness.
  12. bobnoxious67

    bobnoxious67 Baby steps...

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    I don't understand...why would you want a KLR with even less power than it has now, but the same shitty suspension/brakes/over weight?
  13. Wallachian Spikes

    Wallachian Spikes Long timer

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    You must not realize that a KLR 650 makes LESS H.P. than todays 450s. Actually a modern 450 would make MORE power than the antiquated KLR 650. It would be lighter & have better brakes & suspension. The point would be to make the KLR that Kawasaki should have made when they "upgraded" it in '08.

    As I said before, I'm not shackled to any one brand I just like that 6.1 gallon tank & a 450 would probably get at least 350 miles between fill ups. If Honda built it, it wouldn't be a KLR anyway it would be an XL,XR or CRF. I like Hondas, I've had good luck with them in the past & my son builds American cars for the Honda corperation in Ohio. If Honda builds it I will buy it but, if Suzuki, Kawasaki or Yamaha build it first......
  14. bobnoxious67

    bobnoxious67 Baby steps...

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    If course I know that KLR's don't make much power.

    You must not realize that knowing Kawi can't manage decent power out of 650cc's/liquid cooled/twin cam...but thinking somehow they'll give you a 450 that makes more HP and gets nearly 60MPG is a fantasy:deal

    I have a 50hp 450. I get it...but thinking that this is some magic engine size that will magically do everything is ridiculous:lol3
  15. frog13

    frog13 Long timer

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    Agreed....the Earth will do IT'S thing......we can't negotiate with nature or talk sense to Lib's.
  16. Kommando

    Kommando Long timer

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    I don't know about that price, but they should be competitive with the other asian marques.

    CRF450L
    - At least as light as a DR-Z400S.
    - 6spd with ratios spaced like WR250R.
    - Stout subframe.
    - EFI, but simple.
    - Gear-driven counter-balancer in a smooth motor with low-end torque and some revvability.
    - Air/Oil cooling preferred, but liquid cooling will do.
    - Roughly 45HP at the crank.
    - Screw/locknut valve adjusts. Check every 10K+ miles.
    - Option to add kicker with factory parts.
    - Fully-adjustable suspension with at least 9" of travel.
    - Simple tank design that can be upgraded to super-tanker capacity easily.
    - 21/17 or 18.
    - Seat-height 33" or less.
    - Runs well on regular.
    - Good stator output, and MOSFET reg/rect.
    - Plastic skid.

    CL250 Scrambler
    - Simple standard.
    - Based on Rebel/Nighthawk 250 twin motor/drivetrain...It's cheap to use, parts are everywhere, and it works.
    - Roughly 300lb curb.
    - Seat height like Nighthawk 250.
    - Front and rear discs.
    - 19" front and 17" or 18" rear.
    - Optional ABS without linking.
    - Optional oil cooler.
    - EFI or carb is fine with me, but keep the carbing simple.
    - 200+ -mile range.
    - At least 5" travel.
    - No chrome.
    - Inexpensive.
    - Optional tailrack.
    - Optional flyscreen.
    - Optional skid.

    CL500 Scrambler
    - Simple standard.
    - 500cc twin
    - Roughly 350lb curb.
    - Seat height like CB500.
    - Front and rear discs.
    - 19" front and 17" or 18" rear.
    - Optional ABS without linking.
    - EFI or carb is fine.
    - Optional oil cooler.
    - 200+ -mile range.
    - At least 5" travel.
    - No chrome.
    - Inexpensive.
    - Same tailrack and flyscreen as fits CL250.
    - Optional skid.


    CB250X
    - EFI, smooth, 250cc twin.
    - Roughly 325lb curb.
    - Roughly 25HP at crank.
    - Tuned for mid-range.
    - 80+ MPG, with 300+-mile range.
    - Optional ABS without linking.
    - 19" front/17" rear, tubeless.
    - Seat height like Nighthawk 250.
    - 5"+ travel.
    - Inexpensive.
    - Good stator output, and MOSFET Reg/Rect.
    - Optional skid.
  17. Off the grid

    Off the grid Seeker of the Unf

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    The fuck does this have to do with the fact that Honda has not put out a decent enduro in a decade or more?

    Or do you just care to spread your ignorance around to other areas of ADV?

    The parts in red are mutually exclusive of each other. Never happen in a Thumper. Twin? Maybe, but not a Thumper.

    The part in blue is not bad, roughly 300lbs, but the problem with the DRZs weight is its balance. It suffers from what most other Japanese bikes do other than the WR250.....they are top-heavy, and thus it makes the entire bike feel heavier than its 300lbs. By contrast, a KTM weighs about 25lbs less, but rides much lighter due to weight placement and ergos.

    Anyway, the list is moot. Way too expensive to produce with too little ROI. A Japanese company would never put out a bike like that.

    In fact, other than the unrealistic valve check mileage, the first list describes most modern Euro Enduro bikes.
  18. a1fa

    a1fa Throttle Jockey™

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    Let's all agree to disagree.
  19. Kommando

    Kommando Long timer

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    There's always hope. Technology gets better and more affordable. Yamaha actually put out the WR250R/X, and that meets a lot of the engine specs...scaled down to 250cc at almost 100HP/L.
  20. Off the grid

    Off the grid Seeker of the Unf

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    /agree

    But Yamaha is the only company of the "big three" that have shown even a glimmer of "give a shit" in the enduro market in the last 10 years.