What Dual Sport should Honda build next

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by itrack, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. OldManSandman

    OldManSandman Adventurer

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    E button with a big fuel tank & I'm in. I don't think that's too much to ask. It's not like they've to re-think / re-design too much. Just make more of them and hurry up before I buy a Husky Terra. I even like the old school forks on the BRP but USD will please the masses. I like reliability when I look at bikes. Reliability = affordable, which is a good thing for most right now. The 650L is reliable, but come on, it's ancient. Honda can do better than that for its customers - can't they?

    Edit: guess some good mounts for soft bags & maybe a rack would be ideal too.
  2. byron555

    byron555 Lame Duck Adventurer

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    The new CRF250L is doing well, why not release a twin cylinder version (new CB500x motor) in a similar chassis. Saves on development costs which keeps the MSRP down. Add a cush hub, sell it with a budget suspension that can be swapped easily with motocross units for those who want it.

    Keep the MSRP in klr territory. Use the fairing off of the CB500x, or make it look similar to the new Dakar bike, and they would have the budget Adventure touring market. It would be a modern version of the original transalp. Keep it affordable, but designed with flexibility, optional ABS? maybe...
  3. Kommando

    Kommando Long timer

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    E-button, lower seat, sturdy steel subframe w/passenger pegs, and wide-ratio tranny. They can skip the big tank as long as the aftermarket has it covered inexpensively. Can it get better than 40MPG?
  4. Off the grid

    Off the grid Seeker of the Unf

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    The biggest hurdles of Japanese bikes is weight, suspension, brakes, ergos and transmissions. (terrible ratios)

    I touched on it earlier in the thread, but the reason why you will never see a stock Japanese bike with a working suspension is that it's a pricey item and the first thing they skimp on. It's also one of the (many) things that makes Euro bikes so fooking brilliant and a bit more $$.

    The same goes for weight. Japanese bikes have to be built to a certain price point, their Engineers do not get a blank canvas. Because of this, you get stamped steel pegs, steel bars, kickstand, generic brakes, standard forks, no-name suspension, etc. This adds up to a porker of a bike that is less money.

    The things that Honda can improve is to make the riding position better....move the bars forward and drop the pegs a bit, lower the center of gravity a bit in their bikes, and for the love of God copy the WR250R trannys gear ratio for use in all their bikes. Hondas first and second gear are fooking terrible....first gear is practically unusable, and the jump to second is way too big. Narrow those ratios and add a 6th gear already!

    Fixes like these would be doable for a price-conscious company like Honda and make a big difference.
  5. Kommando

    Kommando Long timer

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    Some things are easy enough for the user to address, rather than having the mfr do it for a hefty premium. Not everybody wants a big/plastic tank for 200 or 400 miles of range, but it's frustrating for a mfr to come out with a distance-capable bike that checks a lot of boxes...except it has a tiny underseat tank that costs $1000 to really upgrade from. A DR650SE may be a pig offroad compared to a TE630, but 150 miles over stock range can be easily added to the DR for under $300, and 350 miles over stock isn't a whole lot more. Things like lighter pegs, better bars, better brakes, and comfier seats are similarly-easy to change. I don't understand people who decide against a bike for something easily improved, like a hard seat. :rolleyes $160 sent someplace like Seat Concepts, and less than an hour with a staplegun can change that. At the opposite end of upgrade ease are gearbox changes. The DR-Z is a perfect example of a bike that would work better for many more people simply if the gearspread was wider. This is something that Suzuki could easily and rather inexpensively do...much more so than the average consumer. Yet they never have. :confused Something I think is also silly is that the DR650SE has a wide-ratio 5spd and the torque to pull the spread (even better with the low-rev manners of a TM40/FCR carb), and yet the DR's CS sprocket is MUCH easier to change at the trailhead than the DR-Z's. These kinds of things make little to no sense to the consumer.
  6. Wallachian Spikes

    Wallachian Spikes Long timer

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    Your hatred for Kawasaki is clearly blinding you. It's not that they "can't" make a powerful 650 dual sport. It's that they already make the best selling 650 dual sport on the market (In fact I believe the KLR is kawasakis third or fourth best selling bike in their line up) so they have no reason to modernize it.

    I've had bikes (as in more than one) from each of the Japanese manufacturers & they all have their ups & downs but, NONE of them have been a lemon or had me regretting I bought it.

    I never said I thought the 450 was an "engine that will magically do everything", in fact a modern 450 dual sport was clearly my second choice. My dream bike was clearly stated as a dual sport based on the 700 Raptor engine with a six speed tranny & modern suspension. However, a modern 450 D.S. bike (from Honda or anyone else) would be a nice option to have on the market. Considering that the 650 Terra is getting right around 60 mpg, I don't think it would take "magic" for the Japanese to do the same with a 450.
  7. bobnoxious67

    bobnoxious67 Baby steps...

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    I don't hate Kawi...and I'm certainly not a bike snob. On the contrary, I'll ride anything.

    While you guys are hoping and praying for what you think will be the "wonder bike" if only Japan would build it, there are those of us motorcycle dudes who aren't locked to one brand (or region), willing to ride the bike that checks the boxes, and are already enjoying bikes that do all the stuff you appear to be looking for:deal

    Enjoy:1drink
  8. bobnoxious67

    bobnoxious67 Baby steps...

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    I don't hate Kawi...and I'm certainly not a bike snob. On the contrary, I'll ride anything

    Bragging about a bike being the "best seller" because it's made out of cheap crap and sold for dirt cheap? Really?

    While you guys are hoping and praying for what you think will be the "wonder bike" if only Japan would build it, there are those of us motorcycle dudes who aren't locked to one brand (or region), willing to ride the bike that checks the boxes, and are already enjoying bikes that do all the stuff you appear to be looking for:deal

    Enjoy:1drink
  9. kirbi69

    kirbi69 Been here awhile

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    i always thought people liked honda because they are the most reliable. hardest to kill bikes out there. not because they build fancy high dollar super bikes like the euro bikes.

    and alot of people like hondas way of keeping the same design for more then 3 years... it makes for more, cheaper, and easier to find aftermarket and factory parts especial on the future.
  10. buls4evr

    buls4evr No Marks....

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    I think it is likely that Honda will be dragged into a displacement D/S war with Kawasaki as the new Ninja is a 300 now. Of course the CRF250L is actually based on the street bike 250CBR engine. I expect it will soon be a 300 or 350 by default as Fat Americans always want bigger displacement. The CRF250L type is the wave of the future. It is more likely from past Honda practice that the XR series bikes will just disappear from the US market. Emission standards make this logical. We will likely not see carbs on any road use machines within 2 yrs. I also expect to see them build only 1 size of true D/S bike for our market much like Yamaha D/S (I think we will see the WR250R grow also). Actually a 350 was always a pretty nice size for a lot of dual-sport stuff....... before every American went to 225 lbs!
  11. mwalker

    mwalker mike

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    Speak for yourself
  12. buls4evr

    buls4evr No Marks....

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    I actually weigh 175 with all my gear on and think that even a 250 is fine:D. I always think it is funny to see 280 lb. guys putting on "lightweight mufflers" or worrying about "how much bike X weighs".... Stop eating those carbohydrates America if you want your bike to perform better.
  13. Off the grid

    Off the grid Seeker of the Unf

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    /agree
  14. Gun Smoke

    Gun Smoke Banned

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    Sorry if this is already been said. Now that I think about it it probably has. Anyway it's time to overhaul the XR650L. Keep it air cooled but add a sixth gear and shave 75# off the thing. Give it 20 more HP while they're at it. Honda if you're reading this keep it bomb proof and keep it simple. Don't try to be a KTM. Be a Honda and be it like a boss.

    This is what the new XR600-650L should look like only with a 600-650cc air cooled motor. And Keep the kickstart. Chicks dig it.
    [​IMG]


    Or this. Never happen

    [​IMG]
  15. Tachedoutoffroad

    Tachedoutoffroad Mr. Parrish

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    KTM may be making a small ADV bike.

    I just hope SOMEBODY will :deal


    “…the 390cc is coming which is a full faired version and the so called tour purpose version,” KTM CEO Stefan Pierer told India’s CNBC-TV18, revealing the development of future models based around the KTM 390 Duke‘s new motor. “We are talking about somewhere between 12 to 18 months,” he continues. “Every six months something will come.”
    The remarks come as part of a video interview with the channel, largely focussed on KTM’s relationship with Bajaj. You can read the full transcript and watch the vidwo on CNBC-TV18′s website.
    Last year, a slide from a dealer presentation on future models leaked, revealing both a “Moto3 350″ and an “Enduro 350.” Given that the the same slide listed a “Duke 350,” which is now the 390 Duke, it stands to reason that the two models Pierer references will take the form of a fully-faired race-rep and a sort of mini ADV or dual sport, both based on the same 44bhp, 370cc single and, given KTM’s recent propensity for platform sharing (the 125, 200 and 390 Dukes all use the same chassis), it seems likely that both models could share frames too.
    All this is a very good thing. Not only is the 390 Duke seriously light at 320lbs (wet), but it should be relatively affordable too, with signs pointing to a dollar price point in the region of $6,500.


    http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2012/12/ktm-talks-new-390s/
  16. old-n-slow

    old-n-slow Been here awhile

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    They already have it! Update it for the noobies or just re-release it for the old timers!


    [​IMG]


    Comfy seat and ergos, streetable power, a REAL d-sport vs a deturned desert rocket or mile high MXer,.....I'd buy it!
  17. Sierra Thumper

    Sierra Thumper Been here awhile

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    It seems like the new trend in street-legal ds thumpers is to see who can gain the most weight the quickest.....even the KTM's have porked up way too much over the years. The xrl650L weighs 346 wet....I've been able to trim 20+lbs off it very easily.....the new crf-250L weighs 320 wet, I believe the KLR-250 is similiar...and the Husky Terra weighs 408 wet. It seems like everything weighs a ton anymore, regardless of engine size.

    What the heck happened to a dirt bike with lights that was actually FUN to ride in the dirt??

    At this rate I hate to imagine what behemoth of a porker Honda might replace the xrl with :eek1

    Unfortunately imo 320lbs wet for a KTM 390cc enduro with 44hp is still too heavy. The xrl engine as it came in the nx 650 (same exact engine and specs) was rated at 44hp from what I've read, and has WAY more torque, (and even more hp easily accessible derestricted) than a 390. Plus its mega easy to get an xrl down to 320 wet.

    Honda along with the rest of these guys need to get back to making lightweight dual-sports, not 320lb 250's that put out 19hp to the rear wheel.......wrong direction Honda :baldy

    I'm not sure if its water cooling, more complex electronics/fuel injection, stricter emmissions which equals more smog crap, or if the manufacturers just think we want tanks to ride off-road, but I'm not understanding the constant weight gain in a class that used to be intended as a street-legal dirt bike.

    I think its time to bring back 2 stroke dual-sports.....just modernized.
    THAT would kick ass :clap
  18. buls4evr

    buls4evr No Marks....

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    It would be nice to have those comfy seats back again. Who decided that we did not like those seats? The biggest problem with the XR series is that emissions keep getting tougher and that head is at the end of it's line as far as the engineers can clean it up. That CRF250L is it's replacement type as a new,clean engine design.Honda probably still sells an XR similar to this in Asia, SA and Africa where no one cares about emissions....YET.
  19. ADVNCW

    ADVNCW Banned

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    The 390KTM adventure version is a great concept.Yes, the weight thing is difficult to accept for those of us concerned. Perhaps there will always be a weight penalty for liquid-cooling. Hopefully the extra weight emissions stuff can be pulled off to save weight. Is it the CA Regs that are responsible for the extra weight for emissions equipment?

    That is a nice sized displacement for power v weight.

    Now if Honda would just sell a version of the 450 Dakar with a long-hours use motor- perhaps most of us except CA could use it to travel.
  20. ADVNCW

    ADVNCW Banned

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    Yes, great motorcycle. Perhaps a modern version with liquid cooling. Cool!:clap