What Dual Sport should Honda build next

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by itrack, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. Tachedoutoffroad

    Tachedoutoffroad Mr. Parrish

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    I would rather have a Honda true DS. posted the 390 link in hopes that the need for a 400-450cc MODERN bike will come out.

    My XR400 with e-start and some front end work under at 285wet would be buildable and buyable :deal
  2. Sierra Thumper

    Sierra Thumper Been here awhile

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    If honda would build ANYTHING at 285 wet, bigger than a 250, with real power, that would be a HUGE step in the right direction :evil ..........the question is WILL they do it, and when :confused
  3. singletrackslayer

    singletrackslayer Legalize singletrack

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    My honda 450X may be heavy and out-dated, but its alot less dusty when you're always way out in front . . . :lol3

    I like riding with comperable orange bikes(300 2ST thru 525 4ST). Its always fun knowing that you have just a little bit more than the guy riding next to you and can pull away at any time. Its kindof like a cat toying with a mouse thing I guess. :D
  4. Off the grid

    Off the grid Seeker of the Unf

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    KTM EXCs from 02-07 are some of the best bikes made and can be found for around 2-4000$ in your area of NJ. In fact, most of the guys that ride dirt (that don't wear jeans when riding) are on KTMs of that year.
  5. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer

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    Not sure how this turned into a KTM vs everybody else thread. But most do these days. So I will add that I always bought new dual sports and always bought Yamaha, Kawasaki or Honda. That was right up until a ridding buddy turned me loose on his 625 SXC.

    Sold. A dual sport that worked offroad. No more massaging the motor, reworking the suspension, ditching weight or buying better handlebars, pegs, etc. But I knew there was no way I could justify the cost of a new KTM when used they cost almost as much as a new XR650L.

    But I also knew I could not justify ever riding Japanese again. So now there are two used KTM's in the garage. So I have two excellent dual sports for the price of a new Japanese bike that wouldn't work as well. Moral of the story: using price as an excuse to ride Japanese is a cop out.

    That said, if the Japanese ever decide to get back into the game at the new benchmark set by European companies, I would go back in a heartbeat. I don't bleed blue, green, orange, red or yellow. I ride what works. But I just don't see any of the Japanese companies breaking out of the cheap dual sport box.

    This isn't something I learned on the Internet. I rode (and still ride) KTM back to back with other bikes to decide. But if something comes along better........
  6. Gerg

    Gerg Cupcake

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    With Honda entering the Paris to Dakar this year there MIGHT be some hope. They can use that entry as a development mule and share some of that technology with a production model...
    One can hope! Been a LONG time since I've owned a Honda :deal
  7. jon_l

    jon_l Long timer

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    Really? Not saying you're wrong, but I would be surprised if a CRF450x would pull away at any time from a KTM 300 2T or a KTM open class thumper.
  8. singletrackslayer

    singletrackslayer Legalize singletrack

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    Ok, so I've only been able to easily pull away from the last dozen or so KTMs ive ridden with(Ive only had it a couple of months). Im only talkin about bikes WITHOUT an unlimited build up budget here. And Im not sure if you payed any attention to the last baja 1000, but i believe honda was almost an hour faster than the closest KTM, sorry.

    For comparison, I also own and ride a KTM 380 2ST. The Honda has way more useable power and still nimble enough for 5MOH(look it up).

    And yes, this is a Honda thread. :deal Its ok. Im used to people complaining about my bike, but its really hard to hear them when you're out in front! :lol3
  9. Ned1

    Ned1 Lend Me Yu Choppa

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    Johnny Campbell is here! :rofl

    Curious what it took to keep a 450x running for 40k miles. Do tell.
  10. trailrider383

    trailrider383 867-5309

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    40,000 miles divided by 750 hours = 53.33 miles per hour. Maybe it is Johnny, those are Baja numbers.

    Either that or he used it for highway commuting. :poser
  11. Ned1

    Ned1 Lend Me Yu Choppa

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    Probably loads of slab but no big deal, that's not the point. I got close to 40k on one of my thumpers and I know what I had to do to get there.

    I've never heard of anyone riding a 450x that much so this could be very valuable information. :ear
  12. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer

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    I have never had ANY bike go past 25,000 miles without needing the top end freshened. Most more than once.
  13. CuzinMike

    CuzinMike Treedragger

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    I only average about 2 posts a year here any more, but I’m thinking that when Honda, or any of the big four introduces another DS thumper, it’ll probably just be a modernized version of bikes like the DRZ, KLX, XRL, etc that we’ve all complained about being too heavy and underpowered since the day they hit the showroom floor.

    I believe this because I think Japanese manufacturers are increasingly going to concentrate on world-market bikes, and a high-performance “dirt bike with lights” caters to a miniscule demographic with money to burn that KTM pretty much has covered. Plus, tiered licensing laws in many countries might make any new bike larger than 250cc a tough sell.

    While I agree that more choices are always good, it seems KTM, Husqvarna and Beta are already making enough street-legal dirtbikes to satisfy demand. My local Husky dealer is blowing out 2012 TE’s because they don’t sell, and a quick search on Cycle Trader brings up plenty of new KTMs; it’s not like people who want and can afford these types of bikes can’t buy them. If the demand was there for a street-legal CRF450X in the US, Honda would import it. As others have already mentioned, Big Red is all about the dollar signs.

    So what will Honda (or Suzuki, Yamaha…) likely do? Engineering a bike that can compete with a 450EXC off road and still freeway commute 5 days a week would be awesome, but it would likely have to sell for over $10K, putting it out of the range of most people’s wallets. Slapping a plate on the current CRF450X (or WR450) and selling it in the states doesn’t make sense either, as they’re both dated designs that would never get past Honda’s lawyers for road riding in this country.

    Based on pure conjecture, I think within the next few years Honda, and likely Suzuki will both introduce new thumpers in the 500-650cc range. Both will probably be parts-bin engineered, possibly using existing EFI motors from ATV’s. I imagine wet weight will be in the neighborhood of 330lbs, suspension will be adequate for mild trails, but not serious off-roading. In other words, we’ll get a new XR/DR.

    As with every new model, we’ll all complain that they’re too heavy, too underpowered, don’t carry enough fuel, suck at handling the triple-jumps we all do when adventure-touring and are basically inferior in every way to our KTMs, which are just too damn expensive.

    But in the end, some of use will still buy them, farkle them, go places on them, have fun and feel lucky that we’re able to do such a thing.
  14. singletrackslayer

    singletrackslayer Legalize singletrack

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    3 pistons, a timing chain, 4 chain and sproket sets, a set of head bearings, 15(or so) sets of tires, a set of handlebars/risers, 3 air filters, 5 sets of wheel bearings, 4 sets of fork seals, 1 set of swingarm bearings, 2 brake rotors(+5 sets of brake pads), 1 clutch cover, several valve re-shimmings, a new left radiator, put on a hour meter after the 3rd year(400+ hours on it currently, so the total hours are a guess[you've got me there]), 5000 +/- miles a year, got it in 2007, 99% dirt(as much singletrack as possible) use, and if you mean commuting to go do trail work, then yes.

    +1 mod or two for the saw rack
    [​IMG]

    It only gets used as a saw bike these days . . .
    [​IMG]

    So good, I bought another one. With less than 10 hours on it when I got it. Wanna go ride? :lol3
  15. Ned1

    Ned1 Lend Me Yu Choppa

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    Cool, thanks, that's good to know. No surprises whatsoever.

    The terrain looks similar to what I ride up in the BC coast range. Trials bike is the true weapon of choice but run whatya brung.
  16. EEKAMOUSE

    EEKAMOUSE Been here awhile

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    Hey I'm 6'1" and weigh in at 200 very active hit gym weights and cardio in great shape some of us are just good old American farm boys quit hating! Haha just cause your genetically small doesn't mean your Mr in shape! Just sayin lol
  17. singletrackslayer

    singletrackslayer Legalize singletrack

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    Here! Here! Im a 210# 6'-5" country boy too.
  18. kirbi69

    kirbi69 Been here awhile

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    im a 6'1" 200 lbs in shape TEXAS COUNTRY BOYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
  19. michael1968

    michael1968 Been here awhile

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    And KTM have won the last 11 Dakars, but those race results don't mean the Honda you ride is better or worse than a KTM. The factory race bikes are a different beast to what we are riding.

    Just about all the brands of enduro race bikes are pretty close in performance, most of the difference comes from the set up and rider.
  20. Off the grid

    Off the grid Seeker of the Unf

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    But Japan hasn't put out an enduro race bike since......the XRR?

    That's not even correct. I don't think Japan has ever put out an enduro "race" bike.