What Is The Advantage Of Large Displacement In The Dirt?

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by BeerIsGood, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. Prysock

    Prysock s00per n00b

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    Have you considered:

    http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Experience/Events/PDS/ProgramsandCourses/Motorcycle.aspx

    You get the big bike off-road training and to try out the GS's as well! :nod I think the one or two-day off-road courses would be a great start....

    Let me know if you decide to go, I'd consider heading up to Greenville too.

    #61
  2. Aussijussi

    Aussijussi Long timer

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    We're in western Europe here in Finland, last time i checked, we were anyway. We have lot of single track enduro trails here, the same would aply to Sweden and Norway, they're in western, or north western Europe as well. Even though i own a 990adv and slip and slide it on the dirt roads, i stay out of the real tight stuff, too much like hard work.
    #62
  3. dashmoto

    dashmoto Serial Tinkerer

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    Lucky you. :wink:
    #63
  4. 2handedSpey

    2handedSpey bunned

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    that's a great point. My KLR is very capable with knobbies, barkbusters, MX pegs etc but, if it's too tight, gnarly, muddy, off camber I just won't do it:1drink
    Too much effort having to lug it up all the time. I like to limit my "Pick-me-ups" to 5 or fewer per day.:lol3
    #64
  5. Rucksta

    Rucksta SS Blowhard

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    To me a well set up dirt bike includes ergonomics that place
    Chin over the bars standing.
    Feet at the swing arm pivot any riding position
    Bum over the rear axle when required.

    Also required
    21" front wheel
    Engine armour
    Suspenesion hard enough to absorb jumps and soft enough to trickle over rocky ground without skipping
    Sufficient ground clearance to not get hung up on the usual stuff that litters trails say 7" minimum

    So far we have a general description of a dirt bike.
    If we want to go large we gotta have all that and some power.
    Anything under 50HP is just not going to cut it
    50 is available from a 450.
    70 would do 80 would be better 90 is nice and 100 or over is excessive but that's OK too.

    To increase the capacity & power output an increase in weight is usually required
    350-450lbs would seem to be the weight range for a large bike that is able to be manhandled by mere mortals on a single track
    When getting up into the 550lb examples it seems superhuman strength, endurance & skill are required to enjoy .
    Lesser mortals may be able to negotiate the terrain but I rarely see them smile or ask for more.

    No wonder there are so few proponents of "large displacement bikes are fun in the dirt"
    The bikes just aren't built.
    AFAIK current models are limited to KTM990 and BMW F8GS
    Neither of which excite me like a KTM950SE did and that only ever looked close enough.
    #65
  6. Aussijussi

    Aussijussi Long timer

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    I had a KTM XC 500 two stroker, it was light enough and it had some go in it, not sure of the hp, a real weapon all the same!
    #66
  7. Ceri JC

    Ceri JC UK GSer

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    Yep, training specific to a big bike is a big help. If you are planning to just try riding a GSA like it was 250 2T and hope for the best, you'd better be really talented.
    :lol3

    Aussijussi; Eh? You're about as far North and East as you can get without being in Russia! We'd call you Northern European. Think of the divide of the Berlin wall when referring to East and West within Europe. :)

    There are single track trails in western Europe (Spain and Portugal in particular) that are readily available to play on for free (legally), but uberthumper's comment remains true for the UK. There are proportionally very few miles of greenlane that a decent rider couldn't get a big bike down over here. If you race and have access to an Enduro bike anyway, I can certainly see the appeal of using one for greenlaning. If I was buying a bike specifically for greenlaning, it'd seem a massive compromise of reliability, longevity, practicality and comfort to open up <5% more lanes to you, over getting a bigger bike.
    #67
  8. Ritalin Boy

    Ritalin Boy Petroconsumptivitius

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    I submit that all the talk about specialized training reinforces the opinion that there is no advantage to a big bike in the dirt.

    After all that is what the OP asked. :wink:

    To the OP once again all things being equal once in the dirt light is right.

    However as an all around bike after riding my 450 55 miles on pavement all I can say is my ass still hurts. :lol3

    Half the battle is choosing the right weapon. No need to shoot mice with a bazooka.
    #68
  9. Rucksta

    Rucksta SS Blowhard

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    big mice down under

    [​IMG]
    #69
  10. Ritalin Boy

    Ritalin Boy Petroconsumptivitius

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    What the hell is that? It looks like it hits the gym! :eek1
    #70
  11. Rucksta

    Rucksta SS Blowhard

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    Mouse after 3 x 10 bench press DR650.
    For a warm up it will skip down the trail at 40-60 kph looking for a DR to knock over
    Known to grow over 6 feet typical examples will stand 4 feet high on back legs.

    One advantage of the big bike is being able to pack a bazooka :D
    #71
  12. Ritalin Boy

    Ritalin Boy Petroconsumptivitius

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    I thought that's what it was but I've never seen a photo of one quite like that.

    No wonder you don't want to box with one. I sure as hell don't.
    #72
  13. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    The smallest dualsport bike I had was an XL250, the biggest a E900.

    I could ride the XL on just about any clear trail, I never had to worry about what I might encounter around the corner.
    The E900 was basically limited to maintained unpaved roads with an occasional challenging spot, it was so big, heavy, and vulnerable to damage i rarely took it off the pavement.

    The XL was a blast on any road except the freeway, being tall, light, and a 250 freeway travel was totally doable but definitely not its forte.
    The E900 was wonderful on the freeway, and great on secondary roads.

    For me where I live, the advantages of a smaller dualsport off road, far outweigh the advantages of an adventure bike on road.
    That said, if I were buying a new bike, and it was going to be my only one, I would choose the adventure bike and use it within its/my limitations because it would fit my everyday needs better.

    If I were to replace my Ural, I think I would get a Triumph scrambler, for me it would be as good or better than a bigger adventure bike.
    #73
  14. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades...

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    As you are Plowing a rut when you fall off!
    #74
  15. Ceri JC

    Ceri JC UK GSer

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    You tend not to fall off because the trench you plow usually keeps the bike upright. This also negates the need for a centrestand.
    :evil

    Seriously though, I've only done this twice. Once in a deep pond and once in thick mud. A smaller dirtbike would have gotten through the thick mud, even a 125 would have gotten stuck in the pond.
    #75
  16. 1911fan

    1911fan Master of the Obvious

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    No foolin'.... My Austrian Rock Thrower is too much bike for me but oh so fun! It spit me off HARD once, but I love it for it's capabilities. Just don't ride within 50 feet of one on loose surfaces. :D


    1911fan
    #76
  17. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

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    So, have we all concluded that there is NO advantage of large displacement bikes in the dirt?

    By the way. If anyone wants an extra 20 rear wheel horsepower out of their Tiger 800's let me know. :lol3
    #77
  18. Clockwatcher

    Clockwatcher Been here awhile

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    I would find a bike that fits you, that you are comfortable riding , then figure out how to ride it on the terrain you like. I havent found anything that handles sand well.
    I do know that to ride sand is kinda like waterskiing, ya gotta get on top of it.........my Transalp lifts out at about 55mph......works OK til you have to brake for the turn............What I learned .....stay outta the damn sand!!
    I would say to enjoy your weestrom and worry about the rest later....:clap
    #78
  19. Rucksta

    Rucksta SS Blowhard

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    Don't brake, get on the gas and build a berm.
    #79
  20. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

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    As the question was asked, no. There's really no advantage and lots of disadvantages for big bikes off-road.

    Having said that, if the off-roading you want to do is a few hundred miles from home, you can ride to the ride, ride the ride, then ride home on the big bike. You don't need truck or car/trailer to haul the little bike to the ride.

    I took my GS-Adv places I had no business taking it, and in the process I found that it had more capability than I did. Momentum and picking good lines are your friends. :nod Oh, and DO NOT try and keep up with your buddies on dirt bikes. :nono DAMHIK

    M
    #80