What is the major hurdle in the acceptance of electric vehicles: range, recharging time, price?

Discussion in 'Electric Motorcycles' started by voltsxamps, Sep 13, 2016.

  1. Gregarious13

    Gregarious13 n00b

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    I could see an electric motorcycle/scooter being a perfect vehicle for an RVing couple....Most RVers put generators AND solar panels on their rigs, so charging shouldn't be an issue
  2. Solarbronco

    Solarbronco Long timer

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    The idea of putting a small honda generator on the back intrigues me. But then again, at that point you are really just running on gas again. And paying a lot more to do so.

    The range issue should be corrected in the next ten years. I'll be 62 then. wonder just what in the hell I'll be riding.
  3. pdxmotorhead

    pdxmotorhead Long timer

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    FWIW I'm about 7 months in on a "2nd time around lease" on a Honda fit EV 2013..
    24 months, 199 a month and they pay all the insurance but liability and I have to pay for tires.
    They gave me a level 2 charger with it. (Costs about 400 bucks to connect in the average garage.)

    Its a short haul car, 80 miles on a nice warm day 45 ish on a cold day. Surprisingly
    between commuting(10mi one way) and just running around, I've put about 1200 miles a
    month on it.. Its become out go to car for errands and general running around
    and it will pretty much take me anywhere in Portland Oregon and back..
    Seldom killing more than 50% of the charge..

    The range anxiety is solved by a simple thing,, its not my ONLY car its actually #4+ a Bike.

    If your staying in the city, its the perfect second car , on a level 2 charger it will charge
    the battery from dead cold in 3 hours, but from say 60% its like 30 minutes,, less time
    than most spend in a store, or at lunch.

    The recharge thing is WAY WAY less painful than folks make it out to be....

    The problem with the bikes is they short sheated the charger to 110, even with a
    small batt, a 220V charger is more efficient and faster,, plus they keep
    picking low voltage tech instead of high voltage.. 400V is minimum to get
    any real range and performance.. But,,, YMMV :D
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  4. ctromley

    ctromley Been here awhile

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    I agree that a 120V feed (level 1) is like trying to charge through a tiny straw. The Empulse had level 2 charging (the J1772 220-240V you refer to), and you can get it as an option on Zero models. It needs to be standard.

    It also needs to feed a MUCH more stout onboard charger. (I think 3.3 kW is typical.) Level 2 EVSE can generally supply 9.6 kW (on a 50 Amp circuit), way more than the typical onboard charger can use. If you don't mind installing a 100 Amp circuit, level 2 can supply 18 kW. So before you dismiss level 2, make sure you're getting all it can give.
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  5. Traxx

    Traxx Been here awhile

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    I think the reason that most are coming with the level 1 chargers, most people have 120v plugs already installed. I understand that level 2 plugs are being put into newbuild homes now.
    Range range range. My 300ish mile ride today would not be possible with the current tech.
  6. TheRadBaron

    TheRadBaron Been here awhile

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    I only skimmed his thread so I apologize if this has already been covered. I think another hurdle in the acceptance of electric motorcycles (and electric vehicles in general) is the social stigma attached to them. When a lot of people think of electric vehicles the first thing they think of is a Prius. And when they think of a Prius they get visions of limp-wristed weenies (to put it nicely) and overweight, easily triggered, social justice warriors with purple hair and genders that change daily who use their Prius to drive to their safe space.
    This might be a less than a rational reason for discounting electric vehicles but I guarantee that it’s a significant factor in a lot of people shunning electric vehicles.
  7. ctromley

    ctromley Been here awhile

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    Hmmm.

    So if you're saying that people who categorize and demonize others by putting them into boxes according to ridiculous, demeaning and wholly unjustified stereotypes are anti-EV, well, I guess that's their loss and my gain. Why would I want to be associated with ignorant, self-important asshats like that?

    If those people could look beyond their own paralyzing inadequacies that they apparently feel a need to defend against, they might learn that an EV can be more than enough to curl their thick and oh-so-manly chest hair. I know of a certain very docile around-town runabout, a converted Datsun 1200, that is fully street legal. It takes only 1.8 seconds to reach 60 mph and does the 1/4 mile in the 10's. (No, that's not a typo, and come to think of it, this was maybe ten years ago.) It routinely lays waste to big - and oh-so-manly - American muscle cars at the local drag strip. And many of those are strip-optimized. Then they drive it home as smooth, quiet and tractable as you please, and sometimes stop for groceries on the way. Manly men beware - that greenie-weenie EV you love to ridicule may have enough stomp to show your rumpety-rump musclely-car what performance really is.

    Personality and emotional development deficiencies of certain demographics aside, maybe there needs to be more promotion of the performance side of EVs. Ludicrous mode in the Tesla model S got some legs, maybe there should be more of that. I think the reason there's not is that the manufacturers don't want to be seen as promoting anti-social and/or downright hazardous behavior. So what's another way to get that message out?
  8. pne

    pne Long timer

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    as a prius owner (love it by the way, best car ever), the only reason is range. Battery technology isn't there yet, and its kind of insulting that manufacturers refuse to give us an electric car with real usable range. 100 miles is a joke. Load the fucking thing up with another 500lb battery, beef up the suspension, and offer me a 500 mile range for christ sakes. I don't care if it drives like a 4500lb car. I am buying an EV for functionality. I don't give a shit if it's fun to drive. Much like my prius which has 260,000 miles and not a single repair ever. ever.
  9. TheRadBaron

    TheRadBaron Been here awhile

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    My point was just that, unfortunately and in most cases undeservedly, EVs have political connotations and I think that the politics are more disruptive to their acceptance than a lot of people think. If you ask people to name the stereotypical “liberal” vehicle, the overwhelming majority will name the electric/hybrid car. Just like the big, 4x4, American, pickup truck would be the stereotypical “conservative” vehicle.
    America is at a tough spot politically. Everything is so hyperpartisan that a lot of people will reject something just because the “other” party embraces it. This certainly isn’t good, but it is the way it is. Both sides of the isle are guilty of this. In this case, EVs have a strong perceived political connection to liberals so many conservatives will reject the idea solely based on that. Again, not right or good, but unfortunate reality.
    Another aspect; I work construction and a guy on my crew drives a Prius. He gets made fun of CONSTANTLY about this. Everyone else drives big American 4x4 trucks and they mess with him to no end. This is the result of the perception that I discussed in my last post. He’s a good sport and not insecure about it, but a lot of people couldn’t deal with this.
    Another problem is that EVs are heavily associated with environmentalism and a lot of environmentalist causes directly attack other motorhead interests. Shutting down off road riding areas is a big one. Also carbon tax/cap and trade efforts, efforts to mandate higher ethanol levels in fuel, forcing the closure of racing venues, water sports areas, etc. All of these efforts cause a lot of resentment and push back from motor vehicle enthusiasts and EVs get caught in the crossfire to some degree.
    I’m not sure what the solution is to this dilemma. It’s just an aspect of the EV issue that I think about that doesn’t get talked about much.
    Traxx and voltsxamps like this.
  10. chasbmw

    chasbmw Long timer

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    I think you must have been listening to too much Clarkson/TopGear....I have a BMWi3, it is an absolute hoot to drive, that instant torque is really addictive, I haven’t had so much fun on 4 wheels since I was 17, try one you might be surprised, expensive to buy, but dirt cheap to run


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  11. Traxx

    Traxx Been here awhile

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    I think you may need to work on that reading comprehension. At no point was actual performance brought up. Social stigma was the point, and a very good point. Besides Topgear is just not that popular here in the States.
    Since I brought up performance. Range, range range and range. If it looks cool they will come, so far Tesla has the best looking and best specked EV cars (IMHO) the others look like roller skates.
    I am that guy rolling around in about the largest pickup available, F-350 crew DRW 4x4 and at 12 mpg its not my choice for errands around town. I use the TEX for that and for anything that I am not hauling or towing.
    A 1 ton chassis capible of hauling at least 4500lbs and towing 30000 with a range of 800 miles a day would get my attention. Since we are at it, forward controls, all wheel drive, adjustable ride height, active suspension, configurable and swappable bed/cargo area.
    I really want to see EV’s succeed, I just don’t think they are ready for me yet.
  12. ctromley

    ctromley Been here awhile

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    And therein lies one of the most pernicious obstacles to EV acceptance - strict adherence to ICE ways of doing things in order to accept EVs, without any review of whether the ICE way is the best or only way to do things. Or that they aren't worth considering until they are at least a match for ICE in every way. That's just not a reasonable expectation for an emerging technology.

    Range was an issue from the start, so people fixate on it. I've seen people insist that 500, 800, 1000 mile range would be a good thing. What the [bleep] for? 99% of users have zero need for that. If you're not getting out/off of the vehicle every 300 or so, you're a hazard. Quick charging can't match the fill-up time of liquid fuel, but that's an infrastructure problem more than a vehicle problem. Batteries can be charged every bit as fast as they can be discharged. Think about it - if you have an EV rated at 300 kW (402 hp) output, you can charge at 300 kW. That is if there is charging infrastructure to support it. Currently the fastest charge you can get is a Tesla Supercharger, which tops out at 120 kW. So we have some very achievable tech advancements yet to reach. Your 800 mile day will come sooner than you think for standard passenger vehicles. Big towing capacity is another question, but there are already people working on that. It will happen.

    I do get that we aren't there yet, but keep in mind that serious EV development didn't really start until Tesla made EVs cool. (Yes, the GM EV1 was in the 90s, but GM didn't really want it to succeed. Progress can't happen unless success is a goal.) The improvements we've seen in just a few years rival the rapid rise of the PC in the 80s. So as EVs continue to improve, keep in mind they do things differently. Being open to EVs' success means being open to differences in how we go about getting transportation done compared to what we do now.
  13. Traxx

    Traxx Been here awhile

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    What was that pesky name of this thread? Something about hurdles to acceptance of EVs something something something.
    Let’s see, I work over 600 miles away. I can do that on one tank of diesel. My closest family is 240 miles away, round trip on one tank of diesel. Vacay with max time at the place I want to be instead of a charging station.
    A hazard after 300 miles, fuck you. Well, maybe I am a hazard if I have to pee.
    Big towing? Well that is part of my life since either the flat bed or dump bed trailers weigh in over 7000 # empty.
    So, if you really really want people to make the switch to EVs then exceed what they can get in a ICE vehicle at a lower price. Make it look cool, and fun to drive. Range, range, range.
    Stop the guilt trip, I don’t care how many carbon credits I get or how many what ever else it is that I am supposed to be feeling bad about that I saved. Nobody likes that better than thou shit.
  14. voltsxamps

    voltsxamps Advolturer

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    Something that has yet to be mentioned are those who only have streetside parking or common parking areas where they live (townhomes/condos/apartments) and not permitted to use existing outdoor outlets nor allowed to run an extension cord out their window.

    Inaccessibility to an available charge source at home imo is by far a much bigger hurdle than price, charge time or range.

    Charging at work or at charge points might be a work around for some but impractical for many.

    Carryable/Swappable batteries standardized by Kymco & Gogoro solves this issue at home (and away from home)
  15. more koolaid

    more koolaid Been here awhile

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    "Swappable batteries standardized by Kymco & Gogoro"

    That would be a big step in the right direction, every convenient store having a Red Box like vending machine for battery's world work
  16. davenowherejones

    davenowherejones short guy

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    I met a lady charging a Kia Soul EV. According to her the car had trouble going 75 km or 46 miles to get to the charger where I met her. The published range was way further than her trip. The change from sea level to 4400 feet apparently sucked a lot of power. The highway is posted at 100 kmph but there are quite a few mountain corners where you have to slow down a lot and then accelerate back to 100. She went from Hope, BC to Manning Park Lodge where the battery was close to empty. The published range is bs.
  17. flei

    flei cycletherapist

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    I know this thread is about motorcycles, but i test drove a Tesla S P100D yesterday and have something to say: WAAAAAAAAAAHOOOOOOOOO!

    That sucker is exceptionally fast (0-60 in 2.5sec.)! Standing start. Pedal to the floor. Totally silent but for a hum. 100% of available torque from zero mph on. No wheel-spin or other drama. Slammed back into the seat. A very odd sensation to accelerate like that. Feels like an amusement park ride.

    I also played with the auto driving feature, which for an old timer like me was scary as hell, with the car's brain picking the speed and doing all the steering and braking. Though this was pretty amazing, it is very weird. And it is the (near) future.

    But i will never own one. First, it is $135K+. It has a max of 315 miles on a charge. I recharged at 120V for 10 hrs. and it added only 40 miles worth of drive time (though a "supercharger" takes only about 30" to recharge completely). The driver is far too insulated from the road for my taste.

    In sum, IMO it is an amazing piece of tech machinery and a fun urban toy for the well heeled who want to think of themselves as not being dependent on fossil fuel.