What's this car and is it a decent deal??

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by Dan Alexander, Apr 23, 2013.

  1. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    #1
  2. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    Very little rust, just inside the rear compartment where some water collected, no perforations. It's got splined hubs on the wheels and rounded mounts that look like they are for a BMW /2 with the welded on ball mounts.

    Can this work on my 1100GS without too much fussing? Would I sell the splined hubs and put more modern hubs with a brake on the thing.
    #2
  3. halflive

    halflive Been here awhile

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    It is a Dnepr. Round fender, small step and a closed luggage compartment.
    It will be a good match for a R1100GS.
    Yes, a subframe is quite straightforward, but it depends on your skills, your tools, and your time.
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  4. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    Any idea what year it is?

    I'd probably buy a subframe ready made as my welding skill are non existent.

    How about those splined hubs, are they of any value? Would I keep them or sell and put a GS rim on?

    And the big question, is $850 decent
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  5. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    $850 is a fair deal. Splined hubs are for Dnepr rear or sidecar drive shaft gears- all the wheels are interchangeable. They work on the car- no need to sell them. I think you'd have to press in a different axle for a different wheel.
    As for year, it could be 60s up to 90s- they went basically unchanged except for fenders and lights. First models had leaf springs, but those were very early. That one is probably off a late model MT-11. 80s or 90s. It's been painted and it's missing lights and seat.

    here's what they look like new:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Assembl...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item35b98894be

    You'll have to get someone to make a subframe with the ball mounts to use with the car, or else cut the frame and make new clevis type mounts.
    BMWEuro, Claude, DMC, or some others can help you.
    [​IMG]

    This subframe is from NitroMax's airhead, but you can see the ball mounts at either end.
    #5
  6. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    Thanks MJ, that price is ebay is plus shipping so $3k with taxes and all. Are parts easy to come by for these?

    I suppose getting new mounts instead of the ball mounts would work better?
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  7. bmwhacker

    bmwhacker Still on 3 wheels

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    YOW....if you're getting up to $3000.00 total you're getting pretty pricey.
    My Bro. sold a never mounted "as new" 90's model Ural sidecar for $1500.00 not too long ago.

    "Steals" come around from time to time.
    My Buddy in AZ. found this at a farm for $175.00 a couple months ago.
    A vintage "winged" Watsonian (? I think?)....looks like the fender is on "bass - ackwards" to me...maybe it was a "left side" rig at one point?

    Whatever it is or was, it has definate possibilities.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
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  8. bk brkr baker

    bk brkr baker Long timer

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    I agree 3k is getting into the "Are you nuts ? " catagory.
    I bought a Dnper on E-bay a few years back that had been modded with a hydrolic disc and a car wheel for $675 and went to Pa. to pick it up.
    In the shape the one in the pic is , now days I wouldn't go over 1k.
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  9. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    Yowzaa- how'd it jump from $850 to $3,000? That's too much. $1600 tops, shipped.

    I would keep the ball mounts on the car. You can get the male balls (cue Beavis & Butthead laugh) on EBay (search IMZ or CJ sidecar) or at places like Blue Moon Cycle (search Steib sidecar hardware) and have someone use them to make you a subframe. I have the ball mounts on my rig, which also has a Dnepr chair. It's easy on and off.

    Here's one from Old Timer Garage in Poland:

    http://www.oldtimergarage.eu/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3200
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  10. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    Sorry the $3k was for a sidecar that was linked in a ebay listing a couple of posts above. It is $1200 plus shipping from Europe or somewhere at $1200 or so plus any taxes or customs costs would make it around $3k.

    I'm thinking the car is going to get expensive. I'd like to pay $500 or $600 for it so I'll give it a week and see if it's still available.


    That's an interesting website, had fun browsing around.
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  11. vetsurginc

    vetsurginc Been here awhile

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    Had a car very similar (did not have the fin), all storage behind the seat, fiberglass and heavy duty frame. It turned out to be a copy of an English car that was often sold as a kit.

    It was a lightweight car which was good for me as it was attached to my 1968 60/2. Provided a decent ride once I installed a new shock. Check for cracks around the welds. Mine was showing one but welded up again just fine.

    Have fun!
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  12. gspell68

    gspell68 Long timer

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    Definitely made between 1958 and 2000!
    All KMZ/Dnepr sidecars all almost identical. It's not a Ural, because it has no trunk lid. The only give away to a year of manufacture on yours is that it has (well, had) sidecar marker lights from the Dnepr MT series of bikes and not the KMZ K series of bikes.
    So the oldest it'd probably be is about 1970-ish.
    The wheels are from an M-72 or a CJ-750.
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  13. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    Wow, all these abbreviations :eek1 no idea what most of them mean.

    I sure have a lot to learn about these but I always love exploring something new :clap

    Thanks for the help.
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  14. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    OK, I put my thinking cap on .... funny how they don't fit if you don't wear them very often :D

    CJ 750 = Chang Jing

    KMZ = ?

    Ural I know

    750M = Military?

    Rims are from a 2 wheel drive because of the splines
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  15. gspell68

    gspell68 Long timer

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    KMZ = Kiev Motor Works = Dnepr Factory in Kiev, Ukraine near the Dnepr River.

    IMZ = Irbit Motor Works = Ural Factory in Irbit, Russia in the Ural Mountains.

    KMZ made K-750's, M72's, M-72N's, MB-750's and then lastly some MB-650's and K-650's. These were all made on an older style frame usually with the big teardrop tank. Then they started calling the bikes Dnepr and made MT-12's, MT-11's, MT-9's, MT-10's, MT-16's, etc.

    K-750M...not military!!! M-72M...not military!!! MB = military.

    Actually, the rims are from a 1WD and probably never would've come from the factory on a 2WD. KMZ/Dnepr never used those wheels again after they discontinued the 1WD only M-72's in the late 1950's before their first 2WD rigs. IMZ/Ural probably never used them because they changed to their modern wheel about the same time they added their first 2WD rigs.
    You gotta remember. The spare has to be interchangeable with ANY wheel on the rig, therefore, they're ALL splined in case any have to be used in the pusher position.
    Plus, they don't appear to be castellenated (bottle cap) hubs. This would suggest pre-1957-ish M-72 wheels or Chinese CJ-750 wheels.
    It appears, too, that the installed wheel is on backwards; probably to prevent rubbing. Additionally, it has an extended spare tire rack that carries not just one, but two spare tires!!!
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  16. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    Ah, very interesting, thanks!

    If the wheels are that old do you suppose the car itself is that old too or have they cobbled spare parts together?

    I offered him $600 and he came back with $700.

    I took some better pictures when I went to look at it.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #16
  17. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    I would buy that for $700. You have some work to do, though. Scott is right- probably Chiang Jiang (CJ) wheel, which is on inside out, BTW. It is probably fairly recent- CJs were initially copies of M72s, and they still make those style wheels in China.

    You'll need a backing plate for the wheel, or else a big fat washer. You'll need a seat, too, as well as marker/directional/brake lights. Looks like the floor pan is rusting out. You need to stop that. POR-15 is a good product to arrest rust.

    You can find all the stuff you need reasonably, especially if you're patient and don't buy the first item that comes along.

    But, you could easily get back to $1500 sourcing parts and repairing any rust, especially if you have holes and need to pay someone to do the welding and stuff.

    If you like projects, buy it for $700, take a community college "Intro to Welding" course, get a MIG welder off Craigslist, and have a blast!

    I started knowing nothing about sidecars, and with a totally roached Dnepr just like yours (only worse!), and ended up with a very cool rig (I'm biased, of course!). I drive it everyday, in all weather, and she's held up well, knock on wood...check it out:

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=713860
    #17
  18. XL-erate

    XL-erate Been here awhile

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    I agree with MotoJ! In a day when ya can't even find good gloves or longjohns for less than that other $100, hey....?

    On the rust, depending on the construction [which I didn't look into] there's another easy cheap option. In the beginning just get a small sheet of metal from the cheapest source, maybe 10ga or 12ga, and cut it oversize to any damage. Slop some primer on everything and lay your new or used steel down on the floor and screw it in place as a patch. Use some self-tapping hex-head driver screws to make it quick & easy. At a later date you can pony up to get it welded properly, also welding up the screw holes, but this would have you up and running in the short term to get started.

    Matter of fact, depending on what damage might be present, you could toss down a piece of plywood as a temporary patch, good enough to have you out there terrorizing the streets and having a good old time.
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  19. Dan Alexander

    Dan Alexander only happy when sad

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    Good build thread MotoJ I like the get in there and get dirty, positive thinking attitude :clap

    I don't have welding skills but last night I was thinking about who I knew who can and I rememberd Jean-Guy, a guy I've beeen aquainted with for years who's about 100 miles away. Him and his wife both race sidecars, in fact I think he was first or second nationally a couple of years ago. He also rebuilds /2 and Chang Jing motors for a friend of mine. If he can't get it set up properly I guess no one can.

    I went and flipped the car over and the rust hasn't made any kind of appearance on the underside so it's only surface rust and easy to clean up. I did start Googling and parts like seats etc show up on ebay from Ukraine or China pretty cheaply.

    I'm liking this idea more and more.

    I have been speaking with another car for sale and it's more expensive but has mounts for an 1150GS. BUT, it's well over $3k and I wouldn't have that 'I did it myself' feeling I like.
    #19
  20. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    Thanks Dan,

    Here's another one of mine- once you get the sidecar bug you're a goner!
    http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=768370

    These are some good sources for parts- check the classifieds. You have to bookmark them and check everyday- you never know what will show up...

    http://www.sidecar.com/mbbs22/category-view.asp

    http://www.russianiron.com/forums/index.php?act=idx

    http://sovietsteeds.com/

    I've bought from this guy on EBay:

    http://myworld.ebay.com/classicsidecar&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSX:SELLERID&_trksid=p3984.m1543.l2533

    Also this guy, in China, goes by Ralph:
    http://stores.ebay.com/MH-MOTO-WORLD?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

    This guy Magnus in Estonia is a stand up guy, and he will look for parts if he doesn't have them listed:
    http://www.henriksson.ee/?setlang=19

    And of course the Fleamarket here on ADV:
    http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492526

    Be sure to post pics of your project for us!
    #20