Wheel bearing disintegrates - F800

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by tmex, Aug 24, 2009.

  1. woody's wheel works

    woody's wheel works Built to Last

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    we're on the same page
    :freaky
    woody
  2. Grinzold

    Grinzold Adventurer

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    I know, I know... :dhorse

    A friend of mine works at a machine shop and made some tools to help me fix this mess. I bought an el-cheapo bearing puller from Amazon, which pretty much broke while pulling the front wheel bearings. :rofl

    We had to weld the outer race to a piece of steel and pound it out. The welding didn't heat up the piece very much, I was able to touch it immediately afterwards and didn't get burned. The stuck bearing race came out really easy using this approach.
    [​IMG]

    This piece of art won't win any beauty contests anytime soon but it did the trick. Here's the front:
    [​IMG]

    And here's the squisher that we put together. It's a M16x2.0 threaded rod with 24mm flange nuts and self-aligning washers (still not convinced that I need these!) so that I can use the same wrench as for the axle (but the axle is M16x1.5mm so the axle nut cannot be used!). The big drums on the rod are just a bit under 47mm so that they keep everything centered.
    [​IMG]

    It really doesn't take any force to get the bearings in. I lubed the outside of the bearings to make it easier. They went in at room temperature, I didn't heat the hub or freeze the bearings.
    [​IMG]

    Lubed up and ready to go!
    [​IMG]

    Hold the bottom nut with your hand, tighten the top one with your other hand, and the job is pretty much done. I wrenched it just for good measure.
    [​IMG]

    I ordered the bearings from Amazon.
    [​IMG]

    The seals were hard to find and I went for the V model because they last longer than RG (and cost almost 3x as much, but still cheaper than the BMW ones!!). Only the 25mm one for the front wasn't available so I had to get a regular one. I ended up buying them at Motion Industries since there is a warehouse near my workplace. The seals also have the SKF label but are made in China. :cry
    [​IMG]

    I remember that the rear hub spacer (inside the hub) was floating around when I swapped my tires at ~22,000 miles. Now that I squeezed the new bearings in, both the front and the rear spacers are fixed and touching the inner races of the bearings. You turn one side and the other bearing turns as well. That should have been my first warning sign but I ignored it, assuming that was normal.

    Also, as Woody pointed out, the bearings are extremely smooth. It takes some force to turn them, but unlike the old ones, there's no notchiness whatsoever, they feel exactly the same in the hub as they felt outside, before I put them in. Turning the bearings at the end when they are connected via the spacer is a bit harder, but still feels smooth; it's just that both bearings are spinning and that takes a bit more pressure.

    Based on what I read here and elsewhere, the SKF bearing should be excellent. My buddy advised against popping the seal and screwing around with the lube, since it's easy to damage the seal... so I listened to him. Time will tell if that was a dumb idea.

    Now I just have to wait for the new spacers and brake pads to arrive before I put everything together again. The ABS sensor got shaved off a bit but I think that it will still work, since the shavings were only plastic. I might have to replace that thing once everything is put back together, we'll see.

    I'm glad that I didn't fill out a NHTSA report because this issue was my fault, just like those idiot Audi drivers (way back) or current Toyota drivers dealing with "unintended acceleration" - when it was their retarded foot stepping on both the gas and brake pedal, or some combination of their incompetence.

    Had I known to finger the bearing, I would have found out THE DAY BEFORE IT FELL APART because I had *just* lubed the chain and given the bike a once-over. Based on our measurements, the hub is machined to the correct diameter so this is in no way BMW's fault.

    Thank you all for sharing your experiences with this.
  3. woody's wheel works

    woody's wheel works Built to Last

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    if ya want them even smoother,,,try this trick....the extra energy ya mention in turning the bearing plus the tidbit of info you shared about 'the bearing on the other side turns when you try to turn the bearing ,,,tells me you hav e a slight amount of preload goin gon there caused by squeazzing the outer races together,,,take your axle and slip it in the wheel bearings,,,now,,,use your axle like a slide hammer...gently rap the inner race with the axle ,,do this on from both sides,,,I'll bet ya beer,that the tension will be gone and NOW both bearings will turn
    smooth as silk' :deal
    :wink:
    woody
  4. Gaspare

    Gaspare Almost dirt rider

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    Just right!! Actually I do think this preload is the main root cause of short bearings life.
    A concern is about the OEM quality (suitable for airport trolleys), but I've had a bad experience with SKF, too.

    Found worn out OEM bearings @ 25000 km during tyres changing; wheels at the workshop... we decided to replace them all. Work done by [good] mechanic.

    After 5000 km, a problem at the rear brake caliper - so - rear wheel removed.
    SKF babies almos died... :eek1

    Questions, measurements.... I've noticed a too-heavy axial preload onto the bearings, once [correctly] pushed into the hub! ...and this generation of roller bearings are not suitable at all for this kind of load...
    hub or spacer are wrong in it... solution is to push in the seeger-locked bearing first, and do the same veeeery slowly with its neighbour in order to stop without squeeze the rotors in between them (with the spacer slightly flat-sliding).
    So far, so good (over "monitored" 10000 km).

    The same result could be obtained with this axle-hammering to give this necessary step back.
    Really the only one is going to move is that without the seeger ring, and maybe this procedure is a little bit traumatic, but anyway is way better rather to leave the bearings to seat where BMW decided to (no comment).

    Then, sorry I'm a bit lazy (maybe this info is already posted) but SKF have "Explorer" series that's a lot more durable..

    Have a nice ride :rofl
  5. lawe

    lawe lawe

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    I've bought 5 new SKF Explorer yesterday. I took off the seal and found that one side was half filled with grease and the other hade no grease at all from what I could see. Probably correct for high rpm and dry and more controlled conditions but I packed them full with grease since I do not want air travelling out and in the bearings as the temperature of them changes.

    Wrong or right? I don't know. But at least you now know how much grease there are in these SKF bearings :-)
  6. tofire409

    tofire409 Geared up and ready.

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    I tried to find the post where Wood Wheels showed a picture of what they do. They fill the bearing up till the grease oozes out when the seals go back on. No matter the MFG!!
  7. woody's wheel works

    woody's wheel works Built to Last

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    FYI,,,we have a bearing packer,,will see if i can find the old post,,,

    1,,we carefully remove seals

    2,,we push the apcker filled with hi speed waterproof bearing grease till all the old grease is pushed out

    3,,we then wipe all the excess grease from both sides of the bearing with our finger tip,,,this leaves the bearing fully packed around the bearings and their cage

    4,,we re-install the seals

    FYI #2 = if ya pack em so full that the grease oozes out from the seal,,it will continue to ooze out once the bearing warms up and the grease expands,,,that's counter-productive to have grease oozing all ove ryour wheels and possibly the brake disc....

    remember 90% of the bearings assume they will be running at higher RPMs your wheel will hardly see 1,000RPM,,,hence they pack them with minimal amounts....and definitely NOT water-proof grease:deal

    :freaky
    woody
  8. Loutre

    Loutre Cosmopolitan Adv

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    What do you take for shipping to europe :lol3
  9. tofire409

    tofire409 Geared up and ready.

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    Thanks! I was hoping to find your post to get the accurate information/procedure...next best thing:thumbup

    I was shocked at the lack of grease in the SKF "sealed" bearings. The seals were easy to pop out and replace without damage.

    Thank you again for your help and input here!!
  10. Moto Mikey

    Moto Mikey Been here awhile

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    So what's the best way to remove the bearings? I received the bearings I ordered the other day and removed the front wheel. I got the seals off and the circlip removed, however the bearings are in there very tight. Do I need a special bearing puller or do they just get beat/hammered out? Is there a certain direction I should be removing them from?

    Once I get the front finished up, I'll take apart the rear.
  11. Motoriley

    Motoriley Even my posing is virtual

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    I've done it both ways.
    You can use a bearing puller with a slide hammer.
    You can run a steel bar in from the other side and tap them out.
    If you decide to hammer watch that you don't scratch or gouge anything.
  12. Moto Mikey

    Moto Mikey Been here awhile

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    What do you mean by "You can run a steel bar in from the other side and tap them out"??

    Which way should I be tapping them out from? Does it matter which one I take out first? Sorry, I'm a newb with this.. :1drink
  13. Motoriley

    Motoriley Even my posing is virtual

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    If you want to take the right side bearing out you slide a rod in through from the other side, the left, through the hub. You can't push a bearing "in" only out.
  14. Moto Mikey

    Moto Mikey Been here awhile

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    Ok, So I just looked at the assembly again.

    Am I hitting the left side bearing inwards in order to knock the right side bearing out? Should I put a large socket on the left side bearing and hammer it in, pushing the right side bearing out, along with the spacer?

    I looked inside, through the bearing(s) and spacer, and it's entirely smooth, so there's no lip or any where to hit the opposite side bearing out from inside.

    Sorry, just don't want to jack up my hub or spacer, so I wanna make sure I do it right the first time. And just to reiterate, this is for the Front wheel.
  15. Motoriley

    Motoriley Even my posing is virtual

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    Video is worth a thousand words.


    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/obPQMiQgZv0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KLQ99yHaxtc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ArFC3xPHhGA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  16. Moto Mikey

    Moto Mikey Been here awhile

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    Thanks!
  17. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

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    On other bikes, I've had very good success with heating the hub with a heat gun. I've had 2 sets basically drop out of the wheel after heating and flipping the wheel over. Usually a minimum of tapping is all that is needed to get them out once heated.

    Same for installation as well, except the bearings usually go in the freezer for a half hour before I try to install them in the heated hub.
  18. westy1717

    westy1717 Adventurer

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    Hi folks,

    I recently bought a used 09 800GS with 20,000kms.

    It is under factory warranty until April and I will get it into the dealer for a look over/service before then - but in the meantime - is there a link or sticky to "How to check your wheel bearings"?

    I've read through the vast majority of this thread and searched - but my eye's may have glassed over and missed it..

    Appreciate any help.
  19. westy1717

    westy1717 Adventurer

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  20. Calgary06

    Calgary06 Been here awhile

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    A question for those in the know -
    I am replacing the bearings in my F800GS.
    The seals that the bearing shop had were 8mm thick instead of 7mm. Will these be OK or should I look around for some 7mm thick seals?
    Thanks
    Paul