Where's the battery?

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by freud, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    Suggest thinking that trough again. Work backwards. When you are turning right, where is the contact patch w/ respect to the centerline of the tire?. When you push on the inside bar you are immediately moving the contact patch in the direction of the turn. Think about how the wheel turns on the stering tube and which side of the tire becomes the leading edge when it turns, and what that does to the leading edge. it compresses and the cylinder that the tire was becomes a cone, "point" in. Cones don't roll strait.


    When the bike leans it is pivoting about an axis that is on the pavement. The higher the center of gravity, the farther the mass is from that axis and the more force is required to pivot it about that axis. Conversly more force is generated when the bike is left to fall about that axis under gravity. it makes no difference how fast the bike is moving. The radius of the center of mass about the axis of rotation is the only thing that affects the force required to rotate about that axis--or is generated rotating about that axis. (and the mass itself of course).

    But when you speed up the gyroscopic action of the wheels kicks in. They resist any force that moves them out of their plane of rotation (centered on the axel, which can be ignored unless you are changing wheel sizes). Now when you go to lean the bike the difference between the axel height and the center off mass creates a torque that must be overcome. The smaller that distance is, the less the torque and the easier it is to lean over. The not-so-obvious part here is you are dealing with two different axes of rotation--one through the axles and one through the contact patches. it is the location of the center of mass with respect to both of those that makes the difference. It evitabley it is above the axles and always it presents a torque to each.


    This stuff gets very sensitive when looking at something like a sea kayack or canoe. The loading and hull shape of the boat has tremendous influence on how stable (or not) the thing is.
    #21
  2. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    For those of us that still RIDE airheads, small differences add up to a big diff. From all angles such a philosophy is absolutely at the core of ANY good setup.

    I can understand making a bike to pose going fast. What I don't understand is posing a wanker. I guess posing a wanker is wankier than a genuine wanker but why go there? I am thinking the answer has to be because they have nowhere else to go?
    #22
  3. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    A little bit of that is what people use to think but that was now a long time ago.
    #23
  4. Zodiac

    Zodiac loosely portrayed

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    So the 2 tool rolls I carry under my seat weigh about the same as my battery.

    Feel zero difference when I ride without them.

    And for that matter, there's almost no difference in my Airhead's handling with or without the saddlebags, lightly loaded.

    Maybe on a 1 to 10 scale, about 1 point difference in lightness feel in twisties.

    I'm really gonna doubt the avg middle aged (read body weight) ADV'r on an airhead is gonna make a dent in handling by placing a 15lb battery from the box to below the tranny.

    But whatever, you guys seem to get pretty warped, I mean, wrapped up in these things....:lol3
    #24
  5. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    That doesn't surprise me at all. The difference is that you can't see where those of us that are riders are coming from. (Of course, I am not speaking for pipe smoking googlers that swapped making their journal entries for ADVR but that is another story) For instance, your take on saddle bags. Personally, on a scale of 1 to 10 I would say the difference is 10. 11 at speeds above around 80mph. Empty or loaded? On or off makes the big diff.
    #25
  6. Zodiac

    Zodiac loosely portrayed

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    Those of us that are riders?

    I ride/commute every day, and well over 80mph.

    Nope, don't feel much of a difference as I stated. Guess I just acclimate to however my bike is set up for that day and it behaves according to my input as a rider.

    Sometimes, I don't know how some of you guys sleep at night with the amount of abstractions you bring into owning an Airhead...:1drink
    #26
  7. R100LT

    R100LT Chasing 11

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    I like you Zodiac ... You type what I am normally thinking ... You save me so much time
    #27
  8. flemsmith

    flemsmith lurk

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    I need to see stuff (and sometimes feel it) to understand. Any pics of your battery quick disconnect system on line?

    Coulda used it at 2 in the morning when my wife's F650 caught fire...course it is under all that plastic, that'll slow you down some.

    roy
    #28
  9. ME 109

    ME 109 Long timer

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    Back to the second pic in the first post. A scrambler with rear sets. :lol3

    Back to the last posts.

    It's great to be able to blow the theoretical, mechanically agonizing, latest and greatest, one piece racing suited, hotted up engined, well informed, current subsriptioned squid, into the weeds on my stock, sand/rock blasted, overloaded, yeah whatever suspension setup'ed, shit fightin' RS.
    :wink:
    #29
  10. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    I't's a sealed Panasonic. Was in the bike when I bought it, several years old already and holding up great. So I can't justify the cost of a new battery. When it dies then maybe another $60 over the cost of an AGM for one of the lightweight ones will be a good move. The bike is already overweight. If the position below/behind the tranny is still available then I will use it. I am contemplating an oil tank somewhere so that location might get used up. In that case I will modify the stock battery box location.
    #30
  11. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    Fire is one concern that prompted the rig. The other was the need to disconnect a bunch of grounds easily to open the front cover. I have the main one and two 10Ga dedicateds.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #31
  12. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    I only carry one tool roll, plus a couple other tools scattered in nooks and crannies---but it's a very heavy tool roll. If I can move the battery down then the tool roll moves down to the batteries position.

    On tour, I figure 15-18 lbs for tools and spares, 55 lbs of gas at a fill, 50 lbs of clothing and camping gear, 30 lbs of food, water and ground softener, depending on time of day. GF's run about 120lbs (I likes 'em muscular) plus an extra 30 lbs gear on a two up trip. I have heat shields for the mufflers so I can get the load pretty low, but still, stuff like the nights food, water and whatnot ends up on top. So the lower I can have the base weight, the better.
    #32
  13. ME 109

    ME 109 Long timer

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    Busted!

    :d
    #33
  14. Uncle Pollo

    Uncle Pollo Long timer

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    Lean - flex - weave wobble - resume vertical followed by more wobble
    #34
  15. Zodiac

    Zodiac loosely portrayed

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    With all that added, you seriously believe lowering a mere 20lbs of that, makes a difference in an Airhead... with a strong woman hanging off to boot....?:evil

    What's the delta, .001 of a degree in lean.... Rossi?:lol3
    #35
  16. blaine.hale

    blaine.hale Long timer

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    I'm reading this and just thinking "who packs 30lbs of food in America, on a bike!?"
    #36
  17. Zodiac

    Zodiac loosely portrayed

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    I bet the Donner party wished they did.....:rofl
    #37
  18. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    Abstractions we bring into owning an airhead?!? You are thinking of it all ass backwards. What I am talking about is at the very core of owning an airhead: RIDING it.

    Surely you know what I mean by 'riders'? The type guy that is lapping you in a few laps at a track day or whatnot?

    Acclimate? What is in fact happening is that you are not riding the bike close to fast enough for the bags to make a difference. That's just fine. Now try to put your feet in the boots of one of those guys that can just RIDE. Go ahead and be proud of being slow and safe or whatever but don't at the same time be unwilling to see the sport from the eyes of one of those 'crazy' guys. I have had so many guys that remind me of how you are sounding tell me that they could ride like I do if they just had bigger balls. It comes off sounding kind of pathetic. It's skill, not balls. I certainly don't say that to guy's that are better at it than I am! :D
    #38
  19. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    3 gallons of water for camp, a 12 pack of beer for the evening (for 2, couple large bottle of good ale for one), 2 lbs steaks, half dozen eggs, pint milk, pint juice,small melon, pint cottage cheese and/or yoghurt, coupla bannanas, grapes, maybe a summer squash, brown 'n' serve rolls, spagetti sauce (small can), shredded mozzarella/provolone, small tin anchovies, bulb garlic, medium onion or two shallots, 1/2 lb bacon if possible, chocolate bars (large), marshmallows or jiffy pop, several shooters Beams Black or Wild Turkey 101, Portobellos, Wild rice or Polenta mix....


    30 lbs easy. It's all gone by lunch the next day---the liquids by break of camp in the morning except a water bottle, the last of the baked sandwiches, stuffed mushrooms and fruit by mid-day. Late in the day/early evening hit a grocery store, liquor store, maybe a bakery, fill the water bags---be off the road and pitching camp by the time the deer get really active.
    #39
  20. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    Yes.

    I've loaded the bike poorly and experienced how bad it can get. Know what throwing 30 lbs of gas on the back rack---and then finding yourself riding through miles of deep soft sand is like? On a road bike shod with conti twins?
    #40