Why you should NOT buy a Ural motorcycle

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by bokad, May 28, 2012.

  1. Mr. Cob

    Mr. Cob Howling "Mad", Adventurer

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    Again, "in my opinion" you truly don't understand some of the basics of how a machine works. On a LOW compression engine such as the Ural, at high rpm the force of gravity acting on the weight of the loaded machine going down hill adding in the momentum of the rolling rig there will be next to NOTHING when it comes to engine braking power.

    "IF" on that same hill, with the same load, in 1st gear you had been traveling at 5mph and let the rig roll down the hill until it reached say for example 15 mph and then got on the brakes HARD to bring it again back down to 5 mph you would have been using the engine as a brake. As the rig rolled down the hill from 5 mph to 15 mph compression would have been working against gravity by the time you let the rig reach 20 mph the the low compression was no longer doing squat to slow the rig down.

    Haven't you ever driven in mountain roads where there are HUGE signs telling truck drivers to use lower gears and not to exceed certain speeds? The signs don't mean to start from the top of the hill at 60 mph and then use lower gears to slow down as they travel down the mountain, it means START at a slower speed to begin with. Is it really that difficult to see where your driving technique "MAY" have contributed to this bad situation. Like I said, "I" wasn't there but you continually post things that cause an experienced Ural rider to honestly question your ability to "judge" the limitations of both the Ural and yourself as its driver.

    I just might be totally wrong in suggesting that your ability behind the bars of the Ural has much to do with your problems but you have posted nothing to sway me from that opinion and that's what it is an opinion.
  2. Schatzman

    Schatzman I Saved Latin

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    :clap You jumped to another conclusion again. Awesome. You bitch at everyone for jumping to conclusions and then do it yourself. Why don't you ask me why I waited so long to fix my front brake? Why don't you ask me where I was heading when my rear brake spring broke?

    Why no front brake?

    The part was not in stock. A new front brake disc was on back order forever. Mine was pretty well cooked. The whole master was cooked in fact. As soon as "Ural parts" went back to Ural it suddenly became available. So my options were man up and learn how to ride the fucking thing, or start a bitching thread on ADV. I decided to not let it ruin my fun.

    Where I was going when the rear brake spring broke?

    I was headed to my local Ural dealer. I knew it would be easier to fix the issue there.

    So please keep doing what you have been getting pissed over. You ASSume as much as the next person.

    No cop would have pulled me over. I wasn't speeding or driving recklessly. How would any cop know my brakes aren't 100 percent. When you get pulled over in the UK they take your bike for a test ride?:lol3 Somehow I missed that when I lived there.

    If a child ran out onto the highway, there are 3 wide open lanes and a shoulder. Also, I have never seen a kid run out in the middle of a highway, have you? The rest of the roads were 30mph. If you can't stop the bike with just the sidecar brake and down shifting at 30mph, you shouldn't even be riding. This is also leaving out simply reacting properly by swerving to avoid someone.
  3. bokad

    bokad Difficult Child

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    I asked a direct question. You said I was in the wrong gear, which gear should I have been in?
    Do you thinking jumping down in speed from 15 or 20 to 5mph is really the right thing to do in traffic?
    Do you realize that it might be necessary to keep a minimum speed to keep from getting smooshed from behind?
    It just amazes me that you can say that rolling in 1st gear the engine "was no longer doing squat to slow the rig down." Because boy, pull in the clutch and does it ever speed up. Funny it should do that if the engine wasn't doing anything to slow down the rig.

    I asked another direct question which you conveniently avoided. Those other people that have identical problems to mine, those other swing arm, final drive, and failed brakes, is that their fault too?
  4. Heyload

    Heyload Remastered Classic

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    That is one very fine looking Ural. I really like the white on the Retro.
  5. Montague

    Montague UDF Adventurer

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    Hi Kristof,

    Really nice bike, congratulations!

    And thanks for sharing your positive experience, we all can agree that Urals have many quirks but they are definitely unique and fun machines (for most of us).

    I really admire the fact that you bought at the factory and rode her home.



  6. Heyload

    Heyload Remastered Classic

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    We should all be "cursed" with such a problem. Beautiful bike!
  7. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    Bokad,

    Forget about what some people are saying about you, stop recounting the event, and figure out what happened!

    Yes, your brake failed.
    Giving you the benefit of doubt that it wasn't operator error. then it had to be contaminated fluid, corrosion on the caliper, debris, or a bent brake mount. It didn't just happen without some cause at 9000km, it had nothing to do with Ural OC , improper dealer setup, it's not a "bad batch" issue.
    It has to be either lack of maintenance, or it was physically damaged, which is it?

    You really need to figure it out, your lives depend on it. :deal


    Please try to remember, the opinions of a few abrasive Ural enthusiasts do not represent all Ural owners, saying the "Ural crowd" and other broad brush statements are not justified.

    As you like to point out, there have been many threads on many forums about problems with Urals, and they have not become epic pissing matches like this one. Whats the common denominator? Have you ever considered that it could be your peripheral statements, and not your mechanical issues that have been the real issue with many?
  8. Mr. Cob

    Mr. Cob Howling "Mad", Adventurer

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    Please point out to me in a direct "quote" where I said you were in the wrong gear. Trying to talk to or explain anything to you is like talking to a brick wall. Just because traffic is moving at speed doesn't mean its SAFE for you to also travel at that speed.

    If you have to pull over to let faster traffic pass then do it, if your on a road where for what ever reason you can't pull over but you continue to travel at an unsafe speed to keep from getting "smooshed from behind" then perhaps you have no business being on that road to begin with, if its the only road you can use to get where your going then it is up to YOU to travel at a safe speed and the rest of the traffic be damned.

    If you don't understand and put into practice the basic concepts of engine braking on a Ural I hope for the sake of the rest of the drivers on the road you never take the wheel of a large truck, and yes there was a time I drove truck for a living and still drive a one ton dually diesel pulling a 38 foot fifth wheel trailer when I go to places like Death Valley and other remote spots to play in. As such I know how to use the engine as a brake, know when to pull over and let others pass and know when to pick a different road not only for the convenience of others but for my and my passengers safety.

    At first when you started this thread I kinda felt sorry for your troubles, as it continues and it becomes more and more evident that you truly are not in possession of some basic skills and are in need of being an "Internet legend" I have come to view you and your whining with contempt and disgust. I rarely voice such opinion but some folks yourself included just bring out the "Cob" side of my personality.
  9. gspell68

    gspell68 Long timer

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    I think Ural did have a recall on some of the rear hydralic brakes and sidecar brakes for about 3-4 consecutive years. Maybe the front brakes are catching up on the failures?

    I don't know how well the 750 OHV can engine brake, but a 750 SV in the mild foothills of Germany, from a 5mph rolling start in first gear, will eventually, under the power of gravity, exceed the RPM's and speed it's capable of under its own power. It's really scary having to rely on the motorcycle's (no sidecar brake) hard, nasty, oil-soaked, "lineoleum" brake shoes for the whole ride down the mountain.
  10. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    Present company excepted, of course, but I've never seen such heinous personal attacks as in this thread, from some Ural owners against Bokad. Whatever his retorts he hasn't stooped to the level some here have. His criticisms have been about the bike. In return he's been called a pussy, an idiot, stupid, etc., and he's now held by one member in "contempt and disgust". I think anyone reading this thread impartially will see the imbalance. It's a poor showing by some Uralistas IMHO.
  11. Mr. Cob

    Mr. Cob Howling "Mad", Adventurer

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    Howdy gspell68,

    Thank you for your post. I have been trying to explain to bokad that if you start at 20 mph in 1st gear whilst going down hill you have already exceeded most of the engine braking the low compression engine of the Ural is capable of providing. When descending steep grades especially with a low compression engine you have to do so SLOWLY if you want to maintain control.

    bokad, in an honest effort to help you understand engine braking and how compression ratio factors into it please do a bit of goggling and read up on "Jake" brakes and "exhaust" brakes that are commonly used on trucks. I have thought about experimenting with building an "exhaust" brake on the Ural similar to the one that my diesel truck is equipped with.

    Years ago a person could buy from speed shops what was commonly called and "exhaust cutout", this was a devise that allowed by use of a cable operated valve the ability to direct your exhaust to exit the tail pipe BEFORE it entered the muffler. This lessened back pressure and to an extent increased horse power. The "exhaust" brake on my Cummins diesel works the same way only in reverse, it has an air powered valve that when you let up on the throttle partially closes off the exhaust pipe which causes the exhaust to back up into the engine thereby increasing the resistance to the pistons as the crankshaft rotates.

    Like I said I have thought about experimenting with this but as I have never really had any problem being able to control the speed of my Ural's when braking on hills it hasn't been worth the effort to pursue the project.
  12. Mr. Cob

    Mr. Cob Howling "Mad", Adventurer

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    I used the words "contempt and disgust" and meant them sincerely, I also used the words "in my opinion" and meant them as well. It would appear that you either misread or over looked bokads knocking of not only the machine but the country and the people who built it as well the other Ural owners. I think there is enough kool aid drinking from both sides to entertain a casual reader who stumbles across this thread, but then again its just my opinion.
  13. Heyload

    Heyload Remastered Classic

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    Interesting thought.

    Would a "Jake" work on a normal engine as opposed to a diesel? Hmmm...
  14. Mr. Cob

    Mr. Cob Howling "Mad", Adventurer

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    Howdy Heyload,

    A "Jake" brake uses a mechanical mechanism to actually hold an extra exhaust valves open, click here for a good explanation of how it works.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_release_engine_brake

    Click here to read how an "exhaust" brake works.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_brake

    How such a devise would work on a regular gasoline engine I don't know, I do know that on my old Bultaco TWO STROKE dirt bike that had a compression release on it, you could activate the compression release while engine was running and the bike was in motion and it acted exactly like how a Jake brake works, if this would work in a common four stroke engine I don't know.
  15. bokad

    bokad Difficult Child

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    It's just so convenient for you to blame everything on one person and completely ignore the fact that other people have identical problems. Very useful mental trick there! Divert conversation away from Ural quality or design problems, attack people who mention Ural problems, pretend it is only a single person problem. Blame the rider! Blame the rider!

    I ask again:
    Those other people that have identical problems to mine, those other swing arm, final drive, and failed brakes, is that their fault too?
  16. MotoJ

    MotoJ Mobtown Hacker

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    If you go through and read it all again, you'll see the level of vitriol from the Ural side far surpasses anything Bokad posted. Hell, scroll through just the last 3-4 pages.

    And if you have sincere "contempt and disgust" for anyone just because they criticize your brand of bike you're taking this shit waaay too seriously.
  17. Heyload

    Heyload Remastered Classic

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    I am familiar with "Jake" brakes and how they work. I was thinking a regular gasoline engine (four stroke) relies on the throttle to achieve engine-braking rather than the exhaust valve approach of a Jake in a diesel. I don't think there would be enough compression to release in a regular engine on the critical stroke to gain any advantage with a "Jake" styled mechanism, whereas diesels are all about compression.

    Back pressure through an exhaust system set up, though...maybe. Diesels tend to turn at far fewer rpms, though. I can't help but think adding in additional back pressure would be a recipe for broken engine parts for an engine already pushing it's limits with regular compression back pressure. Then again, Urals don't rev particularly high, if I'm not mistaken?

    Intriguing...
  18. Mr. Cob

    Mr. Cob Howling "Mad", Adventurer

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    If the shoe fits, wear it.

    Reading through this thread its plain to see that I am not the only one who feels most of your problems are self inflicted as are many of the other problems lamented about by others who ride Ural's. I dare say HALF the problems that are written up on the net concerning Ural's are because of inept owners, how they ride or maintain their machines.

    Many of us do things with our Ural's that make your "stressed" ride pale in comparison but if it makes you feel better to discount the experience of MANY who have a heck of a lot more saddle time then you have on Ural's by all means do so it only proves my point.
  19. Mr. Cob

    Mr. Cob Howling "Mad", Adventurer

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    Howdy Heyload,

    And there you have hit upon the "probable" reason that gasoline engines DON'T use any type of exhaust brake, the engine itself is NOT designed or built to take the HIGH stresses induced by any form of exhaust or Jake brake. That is what has kept me from fiddling with this, I know what a pain in the ass it is to keep a head gasket in a high performance gasoline engine after having built and driven cars on the drag strip many years ago that ran within 2/10 of a second off the national record.

    Adding to the compression ratio by using an exhaust brake would be inviting disaster in a high compression gasoline engine, but "IF" the head gaskets could take it and you didn't over stress the crank-rod bearings on a low compression engine such as the Ural, it just might be of "some" benefit. Then again the adding an exhaust brake to a Ural just might bokad the whole fucking thing and truly make it a bokaded RPOC.
  20. Heyload

    Heyload Remastered Classic

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    I'm a big fan of the "KISS" principle, myself.

    I honestly think, though, that adding any kind of additional braking force with such a system on this engine would gain you as much as say, dragging your feet Fred Flintstone-style.

    Adding complexity with such a system..well..sort of defeats the point of having such a simple machine to begin with, said simplicity being a big part of it's appeal.

    A Ural sort of reminds me of chess. Easy to figure out, complicated to master...but therein lies the challenge.